Philadelphia & Reading Railroad 4-4-0 Steam Locomotives

[Tiger]

Recently, Bachmann has released a new HO scale train set, Philadelphia & Reading (P&R) Railroad.   The P&R Railroad has an old-time standard 4-4-0 steamer.  In order to correct the paint details, there is a b&w photo available at http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/pr464s.jpg.  Bachmann needs to improve their HO scale steamers with correct details and paint jobs.

How about the new paint job on old-time P&R passenger cars?

Tiger

[sparkyjay31]

Wow.

Slam.

Someone needs decaf.

[Pacific Northern]

Nice picture. How does it relate to the colours of your model?

[CNE Runner]

Hmmm, given the sloping boiler and fine lines I'd say she was a Baldwin product - and a coal burner at that. According to George B. Abdill's A Locomotive Engineer's Album (1965) Baldwin displayed several of their locomotives at the 1884-85 Cotton Centennial Exposition held in New Orleans...one of which strongly resembles this engine. There is nothing like the lines of a Baldwin (or most other 4-4-0s in my biased opinion).

As far as the color is concerned: I will take ANY color (I can always paint/redecorate it) as long as it comes equipped with DCC. Unfortunately that is not available from Bachmann or any other maker...never say never.

With regards to color: that is anyones guess. Locomotives, of this time, were lavishly decorated with expensive gold leaf and painted lively, bright colors. Sadly the black and white photography of the time does not leave us with a sample. Who is to say Bachmann is incorrect? Frankly, we just don't know. When one gets beyond the start of the 20th century, things changed with black being the predominant color. The Pennsylvania Railroad ran Class P (later Class D) 4-4-0s (in black livery) that headed up some local passenger trains. I have, in my collection, a picture of such a locomotive departing from Bellefonte, PA in 1907. Color and sleek, nimble locomotives are part of what makes 19th century railroading so interesting.

Ray

[Johnson Bar Jeff]

Hmmm, given the sloping boiler and fine lines I'd say she was a Baldwin product - and a coal burner at that. According to George B. Abdill's A Locomotive Engineer's Album (1965) Baldwin displayed several of their locomotives at the 1884-85 Cotton Centennial Exposition held in New Orleans...one of which strongly resembles this engine. There is nothing like the lines of a Baldwin (or most other 4-4-0s in my biased opinion).

We all have our biases, Ray.    Through the 1860s and into the 1870s I'd say the Mason works had Baldwin beat all to heck in the design department for sheer elegance. That's my bias.    Later on, the Pittsburgh works turned out some elegant locomotives, too.

As far as the color is concerned: I will take ANY color (I can always paint/redecorate it) as long as it comes equipped with DCC. Unfortunately that is not available from Bachmann or any other maker...never say never.

With regards to color: that is anyones guess. Locomotives, of this time, were lavishly decorated with expensive gold leaf and painted lively, bright colors. Sadly the black and white photography of the time does not leave us with a sample. Who is to say Bachmann is incorrect? Frankly, we just don't know. When one gets beyond the start of the 20th century, things changed with black being the predominant color. The Pennsylvania Railroad ran Class P (later Class D) 4-4-0s (in black livery) that headed up some local passenger trains. I have, in my collection, a picture of such a locomotive departing from Bellefonte, PA in 1907. Color and sleek, nimble locomotives are part of what makes 19th century railroading so interesting.

Ray

Of course at some point the P.R.R. adopted what was officially known as Brunswick Green. About the only way you could tell it from black was when the paint job was new and clean and the sunlight struck it just so. 

Now, what would really be interesting would be a Philadelphia & Reading camelback eight-wheeler! 

[CNE Runner]

Hey Jeff...nice to hear from you again. Gosh, there were so many good looking locomotives from the 1860 to the 1890s (when things became much more standardized). Since we are talking about locomotive manufacturers and good looking 4-4-0s how about: Danforth, Cooke & Company; John Brandt;  Hinkley Locomotive Works; Portland Works; Rhode Island Locomotive Works; the simplicity of a Wilson Eddy engine; the Schenectady Works...and on, and on. Unfortunately many of the reference sources I have are too fragile to scan and show; because there were some beautiful locomotives built from the mid to the end of the 19th century.

An interesting aside, to our discussion, is that engines were mated to their crew and caboose. When a runner & fireman went off the clock his engine was laid up until that runner entered the call board. Crews took pride in their charges and kept them clean and shiny (not the easiest thing burning soft coal). Cabooses were the crew's home away from home and they cared and decorated it fittingly. Take a look at many of the old photographs of the period and look at the shine on those boilers.

Ray

[BillD53A]

What the hobby really needs is a model of the Camden & Amboy's Crampton, and Monster.  They would be the perfect complements to Bachmann's John Bull.
Hey, B-man, how about it?  You already make the tender...

[Johnson Bar Jeff]

Hey Jeff...nice to hear from you again. Gosh, there were so many good looking locomotives from the 1860 to the 1890s (when things became much more standardized). Since we are talking about locomotive manufacturers and good looking 4-4-0s how about: Danforth, Cooke & Company; John Brandt;  Hinkley Locomotive Works; Portland Works; Rhode Island Locomotive Works; the simplicity of a Wilson Eddy engine; the Schenectady Works...and on, and on. Unfortunately many of the reference sources I have are too fragile to scan and show; because there were some beautiful locomotives built from the mid to the end of the 19th century.

Cooke for sure turned out some nice locomotives. And, of course, Rogers built two of America's most famous locomotives, the "General" and the Sierra Railroad's "movie queen," No. 3.

Abdill's Civil War Railroads contains some beautiful photographs of some beautiful Mason engines. The "W. H. Whiton," the locomotive in the famous photograph of the Lincoln coach, was a Mason, IIRC.

An interesting aside, to our discussion, is that engines were mated to their crew and caboose. When a runner & fireman went off the clock his engine was laid up until that runner entered the call board. Crews took pride in their charges and kept them clean and shiny (not the easiest thing burning soft coal). Cabooses were the crew's home away from home and they cared and decorated it fittingly. Take a look at many of the old photographs of the period and look at the shine on those boilers.

Ray

I guess all that polishing had a practical side, too. I would imagine it helped keep the brass fittings from corroding, just like polishing your grandma's sterling.

[Terry Toenges]

If you like old timers, all of Abdill's book are great! I found all of mine on EBay.

[CNE Runner]

What the hobby really needs is a model of the Camden & Amboy's Crampton, and Monster.  They would be the perfect complements to Bachmann's John Bull.
Hey, B-man, how about it?  You already make the tender...

Bill, you really had me thinking...I had seen a similar locomotive somewhere; it took Terry's post to help me remember that it was pictured in Abdill's A Locomotive Engineer's Album (pg. 61). Now there is an awful looking locomotive! The Crampton had one pair of 7-foot drivers and 3 pairs of pony trucks!

Quoting George Abdill: "President Stevens of America's Camden & Amboy R.R. saw the Campton engines work in England and upon returning home he aided Issac Dripps in designing a similar engine with 8-foot drivers. The first of the type was the Camden & Amboy's No. 28, the JOHN STEVENS: she was a 6-2-0 built by the Norris Brothers of Philadelphia in 1849".

You have to admit: if you took one of these to the club's operating session; you would certainly turn heads.

Ray

[Johnson Bar Jeff]

Bill, you really had me thinking...I had seen a similar locomotive somewhere; it took Terry's post to help me remember that it was pictured in Abdill's A Locomotive Engineer's Album (pg. 61). Now there is an awful looking locomotive! The Crampton had one pair of 7-foot drivers and 3 pairs of pony trucks!

Quoting George Abdill: "President Stevens of America's Camden & Amboy R.R. saw the Campton engines work in England and upon returning home he aided Issac Dripps in designing a similar engine with 8-foot drivers. The first of the type was the Camden & Amboy's No. 28, the JOHN STEVENS: she was a 6-2-0 built by the Norris Brothers of Philadelphia in 1849".

You have to admit: if you took one of these to the club's operating session; you would certainly turn heads.

Ray

Sure am glad that type didn't catch on in America. I hate to say it about any steam locomotive, but that engine is as ugly as sin. 

[BillD53A]

It must have been REAL easy to spin the wheels on that thing...

[Johnson Bar Jeff]

It must have been REAL easy to spin the wheels on that thing...

I think I remember reading somewhere, probably in Abdill, that they were fast when they got rolling but had trouble starting a train.

[woodburner]

The British Cramptons were actually very different from the Camden & Amboy design.  They were elegant, sleek 4-2-0s.   The Schenectady Locomotive Works of New York copied the British drawings for their own version and got just as handsome an engine.   

The Camden & Amboy was a totally different story.   They wanted to design their own versions in house.  Boy did they ever.   The only fleet of 6-2-0s in the world.   Talk about needing decaf.   

J

[BaltoOhioRRfan]

Recently, Bachmann has released a new HO scale train set, Philadelphia & Reading (P&R) Railroad.   The P&R Railroad has an old-time standard 4-4-0 steamer.  In order to correct the paint details, there is a b&w photo available at http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/pr464s.jpg.  Bachmann needs to improve their HO scale steamers with correct details and paint jobs.

How about the new paint job on old-time P&R passenger cars?

Tiger

I saw peices to this set on Ebay about 3-4 Months ago. However I thought they custom made. I'm going to guess this is an exclusive set for a Historical Socity as I can find no Information on it on bachmanns site,  thier catalog, or anywhere else(I have a few other sources but i will not say what they are). Anyone know where i can get this set? I have a feeling the stuff on ebay was outragiously priced. (19.99 ea for the rollign stock, 59.99 for the locomotive)