Tortise and Atlas turnout switch

[OkieRick]

I'll try to word this properly...

I need to see so pics of a Tortise connected to an Atlas turnout (#6 in my case) but any photos of what the finished product looks like and how / where things are positioned and connected will help.  These will be DCC when the layout is finished.  Many thanks - it is appreciated.

Rick

[Tylerf]

I've done two on atlas #6s and it's really quite simple. I ran the wire up through the centre hole of the switch rails then just mounted the tortoise as instructed with four screws. Its the same a adding tortoises on other switchs or have you just never installed tortoises and are a little confused? I would add pictures but I've not had any success with pictures on here.

[Chris350]

This might be tough to get in one shot, since the tortoise mounts under your bench work and only the actuating wire protrudes up though the roadbed and into the small hole in the switch.  There is a drill template included with the Tortoise.  The # 6 has a small hole in the center of the switch as well as one that is offset to the side of the rails should there not be room beneath your bench directly under your trackage.  Have you got a Tortoise in hand yet?  If you're plan is to run them in DCC there may be an all in one solution in the form of a Wabbit, which is switch machine and decoder in one unit.  A Tortoise will need a stationary decoder in addition to the switch machine.  I was planing to use them myself, but may end up using ground throws, because I can walk all the way around my 5x12 oval.  I'm basically trying to decide if I want to do the additional wiring, as each switch needs a DC power source and DCC connection which I believe is separate from the power source.  If I have misinterpreted this someone will set me straight I sure....

[Tylerf]

Usually with either the wabbit(all in one) or adding a hare(stationary decoder made for a tortoise) or any other stationary decoder, the decoder gets the dcc signal and the power through your main track bus. Therefore making wiring simpler, maybe depending on where you would have put the control switch like if it was run to a main ctc type than youll save on wiring but if you were to just put it on the fasia beside the turnout than maybe not so much. Wiring them in dcc is easier because you only need to connect the tortoise to the nearest feeder wire or main track bus. I'm not sure which is cheaper, a tortoise and hare or a wabbit(gotta love the names) since a toroise now generally costs about $25 a piece then add on the hare which is more but I guess that will just require some research I guess.

[OkieRick]

I don't have the Tortise(s) on order yet.  I'm using Code 83 Atlas track and turnouts. The owner of my closest Train only LHS suggested Tortise as that's what they use on his MRRClub layout. My layout is going to be the Grand Valley for Woodland Scenics - I bought the track only on ebay at a very good price.



I'll be adding one turnout at the bottom of the outside right hand curve to run a line past the other end into another realm of the track to extend the layout length. The width is being enlarged by 9" pieces at the end of all four major radiuses.

It will be a DCC track when finished - hoefully DCC controlled turnouts also.

Is the item pictured and priced at the link below what I need for each turnout?

http://www.blwnscale.com/Circuitron.htm

Thanks for the help - things are getting clearer.

Rick

[Tylerf]

I only see two switchs and their industry switches. You probably don't feel the same but I usually only go through the cost and effort or tortoises on mainline switches and use ground throws on switching areas.

[rustyrails]

Just between you and me, since your track plan's turnouts are within easy reach, why don't you consider using manual throws.  Caboose Hobbies makes several styles.  They're a little oversize, but look good, work well install easily and cost a LOT less than a Tortoise.  The best thing about manual throws is that when you stop the train, give your "head end brakeman" time to climb down, throw the switch, and get back on board before you proceed, you feel more like you're running the train...it's all about involvement and what they call "suspension of disbelief."  Just my two cents worth.
Rusty 

[jward]

are you planning to build this on a plywood or other wooden base? if not, mounting a tortoise could be a problem as they are designed for screw mountaing into someting solid. if you are planning to use the foam risers from woodland scenics that come with the layout kit, you will have problems with securely mounting the toroise, and also with the length of the actuating rod supplied with the motor. the rod is easily replaced with piano wire, and if you use a stiffer wire than the one used by tortoise, you canextend the motor's reach. but as for gluing one to foam, the tortoise has alot of torque, and i am not sure your glue would hlod or it wouldn't damage foam.

[Chris350]

I second many of the thoughts here.  They need a solid mount, and they actuator is fairly short.  It will go up through 3/4 ply and roadbed but not much more.   If you don't pan you bench work and place a support member under a switch you run into the necessity of using offset mechanisms to get the switch to throw. I thought they would be cool on the beginning, but now I'm thinking they are somewhat redundant on a layout where one has few switches, or can reach anywhere on the table.  I have a box of six that I may never use, since I discovered the Caboose industries ground throws.  I like the simplicity of the ground throw.  I may use one or two Tortoise machines in the middle of my layout but then may not.  I have a reverse lop and a wye where I will use them in which case I will control them with a PS-AR reverser, which will automate the gateway switch and set the points to match the direction of travel when the polarity reverses.

[pdlethbridge]

You could use atlas switch machines for the 3 turnouts. I use them and they are pretty good. If I had the money I would go with switch master or tortoise.  I use the digitrax  DS-64 to control them from my hand held NCE Power cab. The DS-64 can operate 4 different switches (or 8 if they are in pairs like crossovers) either a solenoid or slow motion machine, but they can't be mixed on 1 DS-64.  How are you controlling the trains? With the stick?

[OkieRick]

Tylerf:
"I only see two switchs and their industry switches. You probably don't feel the same but I usually only go through the cost and effort or tortoises on mainline switches and use ground throws on switching areas."

The stock layout has a left and a right turnout included.  I plan on adding one #6 left turnout to the bottom of the picture to extend a length of flexrtack past the left end of the plan adding length and more track - either a basic switch yard or turn table.  I'm doing all this controlling with a Dynamis with a stick in my mouth for my fingers.  If you haven't read that I am a quad - paralyzed from the armpit area down and use a mouthstick for my fingers - I'll tell you & others again now.  I'm striving for ease of use. If I need a bank of pushbuttons and it's easier to use than a DCC control system that is what I want to know. I'm a bit disabled but try to find ways to make do.

Rusty,
Just between you and me, since your track plan's turnouts are within easy reach, why don't you consider using manual throws.

Manual - as in me reaching out to push/pull a switch - isn't an option.  I have the area of approx two keyboards that my mouthstick will cover.

jward
are you planning to build this on a plywood or other wooden base? if not, mounting a tortoise could be a problem as they are designed for screw mountaing into someting solid. if you are planning to use the foam risers from woodland scenics that come with the layout kit, you will have problems with securely mounting the toroise,"

I have one layer of 1" foam down on a 1/2" 4'x8' sheet of plywood.  I'm not using and Woodland Scenics subterranian stuff. My first track will be on the 1" foam (actually insulation board).  I'll add height by 1/2" incerments of foam.  If a hard base is needed I can always insert it into the foam between the 1/2" layers where needed or place some 1/4" plywood or fiberboard where needed.  This is my thinking anyway. Thinking often gets me in trouble.

Chris
"I second many of the thoughts here.  They need a solid mount, and they actuator is fairly short.  It will go up through 3/4 ply and roadbed but not much more."

How about if I place it on the plywood or shim it up off the plywood to reach through the 1" first layer of foam board?  I really need to know - I'm searching for answers here from you folks that may have "been there, done that."

PD,
"You could use atlas switch machines for the 3 turnouts. I use them and they are pretty good. If I had the money I would go with switch master or tortoise."..."How are you controlling the trains? With the stick?"

Donno why the boss of the club suggested Tortise unless it was I told him I wanted to attemp to be all DCC control.  Will Atlas machines "do" DCC?  I'm not against saving money at all.  I have the Dynamis DCC controller now.  The club runs it's layout(s) and test tracks with NCE Powercab wired handheld.  He said he'd eventually get me useing NCE Powercab.
Yep, I'll be poking the Dynamis aroud with a stick.

Is this the Tortise I need to be using?

                                   

I'm open to suggestions - still.  Folks just cuz I'm not "able bodied" doesn't mean you need to treat me with kid gloves.  If you see something done better another way tell me.

Many thanks-
Rick

[rustyrails]

Rick, you can buy stationary decoders that will operate twin-coil switch machines like the Atlas machines, but I don't know what's available for the Dynamis.
Rusty

[Chris350]

ah not being able to reach the switches becomes a real issue then doesn't it?  Then Tortoises will do you right.  The image you provided is the Tortoise in question.  The flat part on the top is the mount surface.  On the right side of the image is an arm that moves back and forth pushing the actuator which moves the switch points. What isn't shown is the actuator wire that attaches to the side of the green box.  It sticks up 1 3/8" the flat top of the machine needs to be screwed o the underside of bench work.  It's close to being the correct length.  It's fairly easy to make a longer actuator, or have one bent.  The wire actuator does need to be bent to fit the machine. They provide wire with each machine, so it will not be hard to get the correct diameter in the length you need.  All that remains is attach a stationary decoder and power...
 Your thinking is good as far as insetting a mounting point between the layers of foam.  You'll simply need to cut an area in the underside of your benchwork to allow access to the Tortoise.  For that matter why not cut a hole where the switch machine is going to be then mount the Tortoise to a piece of ply that would mount flush to the surface, drop that ply in place over the hole, lay track and cover with scenery.  Then you are simply going to shorten the supplied actuator, instead of trying to replace it.

[Tylerf]

First I must apologize for my poor memory, I really don't remember stuff about people I just answer the questions, second, I will say that from my own expirience with both atlas switch machines and tortoises ill have to say tortoises are easier and more reliable since I origionally decided on the cheaper atlas under the table switches that I just couldn't get to work right and have very little push to them, and as for adding dcc the tortoise is practically made for it. Mine aren't dcc but many people I know who do have them in dcc prove that they work flawlessly.

[pdlethbridge]

as I said before,  I use the digitrax  DS-64 to control them from my hand held NCE Power cab. The DS-64 can operate 4 different switches (or 8 if they are in pairs like crossovers) either a solenoid or slow motion machine, but they can't be mixed on 1 DS-64. The dsd-64 is a stationary decoder that can be accessed from my hand held power cab.It can be powered separately by using a wall wort but it receives its signal from the tracks. It is a capacitive discharge system when set up for solenoids and really gives them a kick. Well worth the addition Rick.