HO Scale Loco Motors - Who Makes What?

[OkieRick]

How many different manufacturers of motors for HO scale locos are there?  Does one mfgr provide motors for different name brand locomotives?  I don't mean antiques or collectibles or any gage other than HO.

All the major players appear to be describing the same motor - 5 pole skewed etc...


jus wunnerin...
Rick

[Atlantic Central]

Rick,

To assume the motors where made by one company just based on their description would be like assuming all cars use the same calipers and brake pads because they have "disc brakes".

I'm sure some brands do use the same sources sources, but even so the actual parts are likely different, designed for each model.

Sheldon

[rustyrails]

Rick,
I've used motors by Kemtron, A-Line, and Northwest Short Lines, all to good effect.  You note that the manufacturers all seem to be describing the same motor.  That is one more example of the axiom that "form follows function."  For example, a 5-pole motor runs smoother and more slowly than a 3-pole moter.  Skewed armatures "cog" less. Repowering/regearing  projects can be extremely rewarding, turning a good looking but poor performing loco into a real star.
Rusty

[pdlethbridge]

I think the question is legitimate. There seems to be a lot of industry cross use of products, not just motors. I just had to rebuild 2 life like BL-2's, guess what I found? Internally all Athearn parts. The only difference was the frame.

[rustyrails]

pdlethbridge,

Thanks for that info...I had heard that Proto2000 units with gear problems could be repaired with Athearn parts.  I don't know if Athearn licensed the design or the Chinese just copied it. 

I do know that not all motors are created equal.  But I will say that over all, general quality has improved over the years.  For example, in the 70's and 80's people were doing a lot of remotoring of Athearn products.  Today they run very well out of the box.  In the N-scale world, locomotive product reviews often included remotoring suggestions.  Today most N-scale locos run as well as their HO counterparts.

But you're right...since sooo much of this stuff is made overseas, it's easy to see how a lot of "cross pollination" could take place.  Bottom line for me is that I buy products from sources that I've had good luck with in the past...and cross my fingers.   
Rusty

[richG]

There are different manufactures of can motors. Some are precision, better quality and higher prices. There are corelees motors that are super quality and expensive. There are gear head motors. Some links below.

There is a possibility that only a few manufactures exist and make different ones for different companies.

http://www.google.com/search?pz=1&ned=us&hl=en&q=can+motors+coreless+motors&btnmeta%3Dsearch%3Dsearch=Search+the+Web

Rich

[pdlethbridge]

oe you could get some here:
http://www.allelectronics.com/make-a-store/item/DCM-342/12-VDC-MOTOR/1.html

[Pacific Northern]

Regarding motors, I was surprised that Bachmann had changed from a 5 pole to a 3 pole motor in the Consolidation.  Have one of each and can not tell the difference.

Is there a difference in the typical life span of a 3 pole vs a 5 pole motor?

Have the other small steamers such as the 4-4-0 have had their motors changed from the 3 pole?

http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/board/index.php/topic,6869.0.html

Has anyone checked the motor in the other steamers?

[Yampa Bob]

Most small motors are made by Mabuchi:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mabuchi_Motor

Vendors may put their own label on the motor (and increase the price), but it's still a Mabuchi. I used to buy the 280 in bulk for 50 cents each.

http://www.hlj.com/product/MABRE-280


The following "secrets" are well known to R/C enthusiasts.

Most stock motors are designed for 7.2 volts operation. They will run at 12 volts but will wear out quicker. Some companies, such as Graupner modify motors for 6 volt operation, for higher rpm at 12 volts, usually for direct drive model aircraft.

A stock motor is "timed" at zero, it will run at the same speed forward or reverse. Usually the terminals are not marked for polarity.

Modified motors have the timing advanced for increased rpm. Terminals will be marked + and -.

Advancing the timing results in higher rpm, retarding the timing results in greater torque. So how do you change the timing?

Very simple, just "slip" the bell end (the part that holds the brushes) a few degrees in the motor housing. (This only applies to the standard RS280 with round can)

http://rcdaggerweb.com/clyde/wiki/index.php?page_id=30

CAUTION: Changing timing can result in motor overheating.

For a flash animation: "Principles of Motor Motion".
http://www.mabuchi-motor.co.jp/en_US/technic/t_0102.html

[pdlethbridge]

another electrics headache is coming

[rustyrails]

Not good.

[lmackattack]

I repowered my Spectrum Mountain with a Kato motor and NWSL flywheel. it seams to have more power to drive the wheels without droping RPMs.  I also repowered an old steam engine with a NWSL motor and it ran very well.

[Yampa Bob]

Advise caution when repowering with a "more powerful" motor as the stall current may exceed decoder rating. Even if the stall current is within limits, running current may also be higher which may reduce the number of locos you can run at one time, especially with EZ Command controller without a booster. 

With motors you don't get "something for nothing".  A more powerful motor means increased current draw and motor heating, and possible reduction of motor life.

[Atlantic Central]

Once again, while there may well be only a few "manufacturers" of these products, Those manufacturers make "different" parts to meet the requirements of each model/design/customer.

Yes when possible common designs are used (even the cars you drive are built this way). That is still along way from "all" of them being the same.

pdlethbrigde,

The Athearn parts do interchange with the Proto parts, but careful inspection does show they are not "exactly" the same. I have often wondered if Athearn licenced the design or if it was "stollen" or if possibly it was not patented. It may not have warrented patent protection or the patent had expired and was not renewable, placing the design in the public domain or it was only copyrighted which would only protect its from "exact" duplication. Since the "whole drive" on the Proto is not exactly the same as Athearn, one of these legal senerios may well be the case.

Proto, and now Walthers will warranty any cracked Proto gears and they have always had the parts in stock. In fact I bought the replacement Proto parts to upgrade my Athean units to smooth plated wheels rather than the old iron ones. Less expensive than NWSL and just as good.

Sheldon

[OkieRick]

I called Walthers tech about adding DCC and possibly sound to a late 1980's Proto Life-Like 2000 Series GP18.  Describing what I had in hand he said it was the old "Athearns motor" type.  The tech advised against upgrading it as it was a poor prospect even though it was a new in box loco.

I'll lubricate it and let it run the DC rails of my layout - a work in progress.  I only have a 4'x6' oval DCC track for now and still have to get my daily "train fix" if all I do is chase a Steam Loco with a yard Switcher.


Rick