normal covered wagon lashups

[SteamGene]

I notice that when covered wagons are sold in sets, it's nomally an A-B set.  My memory is that most trains had an A-A as power on the point.  I know Santa Fe ran consists that might be A-B-B-A - but what was the norm?  BTW, this is just for my own interest.  I have no covered wagons and I'm not really planning on getting any.  Though a couple of C&O.....
Gene

[pdlethbridge]

I spent time in North Carolina in the 60's and got to see a lot of AB lash ups. Most days there were 6 or 7 locos on point abaaaba front to back, all different ways. I think it was the southern. They would pull 150+ cars, fast freight.

[ebtnut]

It depends a lot on the era being modeled and the railroad.  Back in the earliest diesel days, railroads had concerns about whether the unions would try to insist that any piece of motive power have a crew.  Some roads bought A-B, or A-B-B-A diesels as sets, and considered them one locomotive.  Some of the early F-T's had a solid drawbar connecting the A and B unit.  By the 1950's the railroads and the unions had come to an understanding about MU control for diesel lash-ups, and keeping sets together became less of a priority.  As time moved forward, operating personnel cared less and less about consistency, and was tacking together whatever was on the ready track to get the horsepower needed for the job.  The only caveat was if there were any Baldwin locos on the roster.  Their MU system did not match the EMD, Alco and GE power, so they could only mate with other Baldwins. 

[Nathan]

In a 2009 calendar of pictures of mostly Santa Fe they show ABB, ABBB ABBBB, and one ABA-ABBBA.

In one of the magazines last year was an early GP lash up of ABBB so early GP and SD units were also had a variations also.

[boomertom]

Gene, According to C&O Power, in September 16 A-B-A F7 sets were ordered,an additional order for 27 more A-B-A sets was placed in September 1951.

C&O never had E- * B units and the usual consist was A-A-A.

Tom

[Loco Bill Canelos]

I don't think there really is a normal, so you can do what you want.

The Rio Grande often ran ABB or ABBB on the California Zephyr and that was pretty much the norm.   They added B units in winter to get more steam generators on line since the Bunits were equiped with them.   In latter years they converted their Alco PB units to steam generator cars.  It was mot unusual to see F9 A-F9B- Alco B-F9B, F9B.  and as many other orders as you can think of.  After passenger service ended the F units were used in large numbers often mixed with GP-7/9's.  

Have fun no matter what mix you use and you can almost never go wrong with A-B-A!!

[Atlantic Central]

Gene,

Lots of good info here from all. A few more thoughts.

It depends a lot on road and era as others have said, AND type of service.

Western roads who bought a lot of F units for passenger service tended to use ABB setups because some did not order their A units with steam generators and because the steam generator equipted B units carry more water.

C&O, as previously mentioned, bought theirs as ABA sets, and, like most roads, kept them together as a "locomotive" at first.

40's thru early 50's you would have seen mostly matched sets. Another example: On the B&O ABBA F3's, F7's and ALCO FA's where first put to work as helpers replacing steam. Often the trains they helped where still steam powered. But the diesels had the advantage of not needing to be turned to work grades in both directions on a given sub division.

C&O passenger E units where all A units as already mentioned. C&O passenger trains rarely required more than an AA back to back, but when they did another A was added. On my layout I have my own freelanced version of "what if the 1950's George Washington was as successful as hoped"

Two E8's pulling 9 modified Con Cor streamliners - maybe not completely prototypical, but very pretty.

One other way to think about this is - an AB F3, F7 or FA lash up is roughly equal to a heavy 2-8-0 or a Mike and a ABA is roughly equal to Berk or a Northern, so train size/weight and motive power requirements follow acordingly.

A train that would require two mikes (like the typical B&O merchandise train west out of Baltimore to Brunswick) would need 4 units - ABBA lash ups replaced those mikes  - requiring only one crew instead of two! But 4 GP7's or GP9's soon provided the same power with even more flexibilty!

Sheldon

[Atlantic Central]

Gene,

There are some really nice C&O F units out there - Proto 2000 (I have an ABA, C&O) and intermountain - they run great!

Sheldon

[SteamGene]

Sheldon, I know.  But I can wait. <g>
Gene

[jward]

here is what i remember, supplemented by what my research on emd locomotives shows.....

the most common as built configuration for f units in general was a-b-a. many roads that bought fts in a-b sets often went back to emd for single a units to make 3 unit sets. usually, these were f2 or f3 models. i do not believe emd sold single fta's, but they did with all other f unit models.

many ft a-b sets had a drawbar between the units, as such they stayed together pretty much for life unless the railroad modified this drawbar or replaced it with couplers. very few if any other f units models came with drawbars....

the ft's were for the most part, traded in early on gp20s or gp30s, by the end of the 1960s they were all but extinct....the other f units lasted on certain railroads until the early 1980s, which are the ones i will base my personal observations on.....

i was fortunate enough to catch the f units in service on the b&o, western maryland, penn central/conrail, and the clinchfield. at this late date, they were considered just another locomotive and were mixed freely with other types. by this time, b units were relatively scarce, as the railroads found their lack of a cab to limit their usefulness.

it should be noted that other builders locomotives were not always compatable with emd. the baldwin sharks, for example, only ran with their own kind. only the b&o mixed them with other baldwins on a regular basis.

some alco fa's and fb's could be used in multiple with emd, but these seem to be the exception rather than the rule.

[boomertom]

Gene,

I grew up in Covington, Virginia on the C&O's Alleghany Division. I was all of 7 years old when the big diesel push began in 1952 . Dad and I went to the depot every evening for the arrival of the Eastbound Sportsman and west bound George Washington.

As these trains were the same consists that had required doubleheading Greenbriers of Mountains, on the Alleghany sub three E-8s were the norm - two A's back to back and a third trailing nose to the train.

Freight was initially A-B-A F7's but very quickly in this division were four and five unit lash-ups of GP9's.

Up until I was about 10 - 1955 - steam power was still common even on some passenger runs. Many of those trips to D.C Ireferenced in Dinner in the Dinner were behind steam.

I have to admit that to a young kid, the "streamliners" were more exciting than just another steam engine.

Neither of the other railroads I grew up with - Norfolk & Western and Virginian had covered wagons.

I hope you and others find these reflections from the early 1950's of interest.

Tom

[glennk28]

SP and Rio Grande generally bought ABBA sets--the Grande followed up with GP-9's--that often wound up in sets of AB GP BA known as "Perlman Mallets"  gj