An N scale K4 in the works

[1218classa]

     If a model manufacturer decides to build a certain locomotive prototype of course there are alot of initial costs involved.  R&D, mold design, marketing,and testing all cost alot of money.We all know that. But after the initial costs are covered then more of the money from sales go to profit.     
     Even after a second and third run there may be additional costs like material cost increases, machine maintenance, employee issues, etc. But they will no where equal initial startup costs. So if Bachmann is already making say eight different types of locomotives in steam the price per unit cost in the end should not be that much higher if they decide to make one more for this year. 

[bobwrgt]

I let the builders make what they want. That is why i switched to HO for steam. Not enough in N scale. I have all the Bachmann Spectrum steam engines in HO and also BLI (Broadway) and Proto engines i need. I haven't purchased a Bachmann engine in over 2 years (Steam or diesel) since they have not made any i need. I have purchased around 100 other engines made by the other buliders.
For Hudsons and Pacifics i use BLI or Rivarossi and an quite happy with them.
Bachmann needs to quicken the pace on new models if they want my cash.

Bob

[eric220]

That is why i switched to HO for steam. Not enough in N scale.

I keep wondering if the dearth of steam in N Scale is due to a lack of demand, or if that lack of demand is just perceived because not many manufacturers are willing to make high-quality steam.  I believe that Kato and Athearn have clearly shown in recent memory that there is demand for high-quality, road specific N Scale steam.  A K4 or other large PRR steam makes a lot of sense, because they are popular, they were common, and the passenger and freight cars are out there, so there are cars to pull.

It will be interesting to see how the FVM Hiawatha does.

[Wrath of Wotan]

If their toolmakers are worth their salt and very clever, they should be able to make the Belpaire firebox area an interchangeable set of inserts in the tooling for a basic, high-quality Heavy Pacific.  The raised headlight and domes should not present any significant problems.  Us Pennsy fans can't be the only ones screaming for a nice Heavy Pacific, can we??  Put me down for 2 or 3 when reservation time rolls around!

[in_eden]

It's definately not PRR fans... although starting with a K4 is most logical... as even non PRR modelers will probably buy one. (i.e. GG1)

I'm a B&O guy, and the B&O P7 is almost identical in height, weight, driver size, and length. There are little differences, but I'm sure that most of us would be very willing to kit-bash a little, or accept the little things to have a nice heavy pacific.
I use the heavy mountain to represent B&O's T class. They aren't perfect, but they are a lot closer than the nothing I'd have otherwise!

[dtpowell]

Hello in-edan,

I may be wrong, but didn't the Pennsy own the B&O at one time? I kinda remember someone telling me the B&O actually had an E-6 or two or three. (Maybe wishful thinking, or looking at the new Lionel catalog with their B&O E-6) Any who, I wouldn't be too offended myself being a B&O fan too. Having a K-4 with B&O on the side. I buy what ever N scale steam I think is appropriate or can get away with.
I have a Heavy Mountain in N&W and can see what your saying about the T class. It's so close I'm surprised Bachmann hasn't lettered a Heavy mountain for the T-3. No matter, a plain old K-4 in Penn would serve me well. And just think the boiler could be used for at lease 5 road numbers of L-1 mikado's.

Regards, Dave

[in_eden]

The B&O did indeed have E6's. There is one still at the B&O Muesum in Baltimore. The B&O was a pilot customer for E units, starting with EA's. They had FT, F3, F7, F9's as well, but their bigger passenger units were always E units.

The T3's were near balwin heavy mountain clones purchased from the Boston and Maine... T4's were rebuilt using old S class boilers, hence the taper. B&O mountains used a larger tender, with 6-axle buckeye trucks, but again, beggers can't be choosers.
I'd take a heavy mountain... period!
If they were smart, they'd make the Belpaire fire box an add-on detail that coul be easily left off... and make several without. B&O, Boston and Maine, Erie, NYC, Southern, IC, Milwaukee Road, AT&SF... just to name a few... could all be made using nearly the same boiler. The differences were details... steam pumps, domes, headlights...

but you can superdetail yourself.

You NEED the basic structure first!

[skipgear]

The B&O did indeed have E6's. There is one still at the B&O Muesum in Baltimore. The B&O was a pilot customer for E units, starting with EA's. They had FT, F3, F7, F9's as well, but their bigger passenger units were always E units.

The E6 he was talking about was an PRR E6 Atlantic (4-4-2) and yes the B&O did have an Atlantic with a Belpaire fire box but it was nowhere as large as as PRR E6. The loco's were ordered when PRR had some control of the B&O for a short time. The B&O loco more closely resembles a PRR E3.

B&O A2 Atlantic - http://photoswest.org/cgi-bin/imager?00002424

PRR E3 Atlantic - http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/prr3014s.jpg

PRR E6 Atlantic - http://photoswest.org/cgi-bin/imager?00014261

A PRR E6 was a much larger loco than most any other Atlantic made.

[dtpowell]

You're correct Skipgear, thank you for the correction.
I was refering to the Pennsylvania E-6 4-4-2 Atlantics and the L-1 2-8-2 Mikado steam locomotives.

[J3a-614]

I'm normally an HO man, but I saw this, and remembered having a thread on this subject for that scale.  Some of the comments and observations may be useful here, both for the Pennsylvania subject and the USRA light 4-6-2, which is currently available from Model Power (and is also the same prototype as the long-awaited Athearn engine in HO).

http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/board/index.php/topic,14020.0.html

[in_eden]

It seems very strange that there is no N scale heavy pacific produced... at all.
It is more odd that no K4 exists.
In any scale, there are a few steam models that just have to exist... if for no other reason than their historical significance and/or presence in excursion service for many many years.
A N&W J
A SP G-4 Daylight
A UP Challenger
A NKP Berkshire
A Reading T1
A NYC Hudson
A PRR K4

Once you've made those basic models, you've got a platform to work with for about a million variants and road names (esp. the 4-8-4 and 4-6-2 platforms... EVERYONE ran one!)

Classic Iconic locomotives would find themselevs a home on many layouts... even layouts set in modern times...
Despite my modeling the B&O in the mid-late fifties, I have purchased a J, a Daylight, a GG1, and am awaiting my Hiawatha set.
Beautiful classic trains are simply to good to pass up. So what in real life the Capitol Limited never passed a Morning Daylight between DC and Pittsburgh... It also didn't occur in my basement...

Now that N scale steam is getting good... and in many cases REALLY good... thank you Mr Bachmann for your 2-8-0, heavy 4-8-2, and N&W J... it's still startling that some of the staples of mainline railroading across the country are so poorly represented.
Mikados are poorly represented.
Pacifics... Model Power USRA light...
Hudsons... a 25 year old Con-Cor model
It seems that the entire market is out there for the taking...

[eric220]

It's easy to sit here on the boards and talk, so I thought I might demonstrate my willingness to drop a few dollars on PRR-specific steam.  I picked this up at a show this weekend.



It's the old Minitrix PRR B6 lettered for the ATSF.  Both this B6 and my Minitrix K4 have a lot of work left to be done on them before they will operate properly on my layout.  I gladly accept the cost of purchasing these locos, along with the investment in time and effort (or money) to get them up to a satisfactory running condition; however, I would much rather buy models with modern tooling, painting, and mechanisms, directional lighting, DCC or DCC-ready, and so on.

[heintz]

I have a little more on this subject; yes, the Kato Broadway Limited is a later era but now  Centralia is producing the earlier cars for the Broadway AND the 20th Century. They NEED a K4 for these cars. And if a K4, why not an E6 Atlantic which shares a lot of parts with the K4?

[eric220]

And if a K4, why not an E6 Atlantic which shares a lot of parts with the K4?

While we're up, the L1 mike shared a boiler with the K4.

[eric220]

Popular thought?

http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/board/index.php?topic=15264.0