Wants to see the civil war 4-4-0s redone into the spectrum lineup

[jdmike]

I want to see the civil war era 4-4-0s redone with a proper in locomotive drive train, I know it can be done, we have Z scale and beautifull N scale engines, so I know the motor technology is there.  A good running pre 1900 locomotive is despiratly needed.  Espicaly one that is detailed like the post 1900 Richmond 4-4-0 you do now.   A new model of the Casey Jones Rodgers ten wheeler would be another excellent model to see out again.  The old one is beautifull, but with huge flanges and warp drive speed range, it takes quite an effort to make it run on a nice turn of the century layout with proper code rail.  While Athearn/Roundhouse has a couple of models out, they are almost crude compared to even the old AHM/Rivarossi Casey Jones engine.  Take the Richmond 4-4-0's detail and apply it to a proper pre 1900 model.   That whole era of modeling is neglected and wide open to selling product if it was made.  Smaller rolling stock, light weight rail, often just laid on the dirt, wood burning engines or small coal burning.  No automobiles or roads like a more modern layout.  There are loads of kits still on the market for that era, but lacking a good engine to pull it.  Not looking for arguments, but discussion of what could be done with pre 1900 modeling if the models were there to buy.   

[Pacific Northern]

I want to see the civil war era 4-4-0s redone with a proper in locomotive drive train, I know it can be done, we have Z scale and beautifull N scale engines, so I know the motor technology is there.  A good running pre 1900 locomotive is despiratly needed.  Espicaly one that is detailed like the post 1900 Richmond 4-4-0 you do now.   A new model of the Casey Jones Rodgers ten wheeler would be another excellent model to see out again.  The old one is beautifull, but with huge flanges and warp drive speed range, it takes quite an effort to make it run on a nice turn of the century layout with proper code rail.  While Athearn/Roundhouse has a couple of models out, they are almost crude compared to even the old AHM/Rivarossi Casey Jones engine.  Take the Richmond 4-4-0's detail and apply it to a proper pre 1900 model.   That whole era of modeling is neglected and wide open to selling product if it was made.  Smaller rolling stock, light weight rail, often just laid on the dirt, wood burning engines or small coal burning.  No automobiles or roads like a more modern layout.  There are loads of kits still on the market for that era, but lacking a good engine to pull it.  Not looking for arguments, but discussion of what could be done with pre 1900 modeling if the models were there to buy.  

I seriously wonder if there is the market out there to support this request.

[jdmike]

Considering the bidding wars i see over the AHM Casey Jones on ebay in recent months, and one cannot run it on anything other than code 100.  This is one of those times, where I think if you build it, they will come.   Pre 1900 is excellent small layout material, with its small engines and cars.  But many modelers want it ready to run, up till now its been mostly a craftsman kit and scratchbuilding scale.   Dont get me wrong, I love the beautifull huge steam engines we have been seeing in the last few years.  But its time to do or redo some of the smaller power.  And that doesnt mean more 0-6-0s or yard engines! 

[richG]

There is not much demand for the kind of loco. It is hardly a niche market. Very few people model the Civil War. Civil War was 1861 to 1865. Those that do bash there own HO scale, usually The General or similar 1860 locomotive. Usually, tender drive Mantua 4-4-0 General locos. No air compressor, oil lamps. Link & pin couplers which are very difficult to make in HO scale. I made a 1855 era 0-8-0 Winans Camel and it was quite a project. There are some 1900 era modelers and a few for the Civil War in a couple Yahoo Groups. Small locos like this are not easy to produce so the modeler will have a good running loco. Think expensive.
It sounds like you have some good ideas so try to make a loco like than and let us know how it works out. The technology is available as you say.

Rich

[ebtnut]

I generally agree with Rich that there may not be that big a market for a mid-19th Century 4-4-0.  OTOH, locos like the William Mason, the Golden Spike locos, and the V&T engines, were pretty much sui generis from the 1860's into the 1890's.  I actually think that if Bachmann would make a Spectrum quality engine like this, offer it with a selection of stacks (like baloon, diamond and straight) and with a couple of the fancy Baldwin-type paint scheme, they might create a market sort of like they did with On30.  Yes, certainly the design technology is there--it probably wouldn't take much to adapt the On30 4-4-0 mechanism to something like this. 

[WGL]

  I just received the Winter Historic Rail catalog.  They have the Central Pacific Juniper & the Union Pacific 119 that met at the joining of the transcontinental railroad.  $95 each or $150 for the pair.  They also sell 50' Central Pacific passenger cars.

[Johnson Bar Jeff]

Considering the bidding wars i see over the AHM Casey Jones on ebay in recent months, and one cannot run it on anything other than code 100.  This is one of those times, where I think if you build it, they will come.   Pre 1900 is excellent small layout material, with its small engines and cars.  But many modelers want it ready to run, up till now its been mostly a craftsman kit and scratchbuilding scale.   Dont get me wrong, I love the beautifull huge steam engines we have been seeing in the last few years.  But its time to do or redo some of the smaller power.  And that doesnt mean more 0-6-0s or yard engines! 

For what it's worth, I think you make a good point that the pre-1900 era is great for small layouts. 

[CNE Runner]

Hey y'all check out the Model Railroader forums (http://cs.trains.com/trccs/forums/t/146079.aspx) where we have already explored this thread. Saying there isn't enough interest in Civil War/late 19th century engines and rolling stock is bunk! I think Bachmann did an outstanding job of introducing a lot of modelers to On30...they (or others) could do the same for HO. Rather than have me repeat some excellent points here - check out the MR thread.

Ray

[richG]

This is what the present old time locos look like.



The upper left is a HO all metal  Mantua General, circa 1860.

The upper right is a Bachmann 4-4-0 circa 1870 to 1880. The tender frame was replace with a Mantua frame and trucks.

The lower left is a IHC 4-4-0, circa 1870 to 1870.

All are tender drives with a small Lenz DCC decoder.

It would be very difficult to put the motor in the loco and have enough weight to pull anything.
Weight has to be centered over the drivers which is very difficult to do with model locos of this size.

The Bachmann photos of the newest release of the old time 4-4-0 does not allow you to see if they are still tender dirve. The area between the tender and loco is dark.
I do know at one time some showed photos of the 4-4-0s without the drive shaft. I have not bought the newest old timers.

Rich

[hminky]

Hey y'all check out the Model Railroader forums (http://cs.trains.com/trccs/forums/t/146079.aspx) where we have already explored this thread. Saying there isn't enough interest in Civil War/late 19th century engines and rolling stock is bunk! I think Bachmann did an outstanding job of introducing a lot of modelers to On30...they (or others) could do the same for HO. Rather than have me repeat some excellent points here - check out the MR thread.

Ray

And the same 5-6 people who think there is a market chime in, the usual suspects.

Harold

[Terry Toenges]

What an awesome sight it is to watch the reenactment of the CP and UP joining!

[Frisco]

A wouldn't be into Civil War erea 4-4-0s but if bachmann made a model of the Virginia & Truckee 4-4-0s I would buy several.

[hminky]

A wouldn't be into Civil War erea 4-4-0s but if bachmann made a model of the Virginia & Truckee 4-4-0s I would buy several.

The Old time 4-4-0 is the V&T 4-4-0 in disguise.

Harold