Beyer-Garrett

[Frisco]

I would definitely find room on my layout for a model of the G class Garrett. I live in Aust, but model US Pacific NW logging. I am SURE my prototype used a Garrett. 

Steve Magee

It's your railroad but in real life we didn't have any garrets like those in the northwest.

[ksivils]

There is a Garratt (NG-16) in Texas.

This locomotive definitely falls in the "what if" or "might have been" category.  But to think that the Garratt type would not have served well if ever given a chance in the U.S. is naive.  Alco, I believe, had the U.S. concession to build Garratts but never sold an order for any.

The very thing that made Shays, Heislers, and Climaxes popular in the U.S. would have been the same reason the Garratt would have been popular.  Lots of power on light axle loadings, the ability to handle tight curves and light track but pull long trains would have made it a success.

A NG-16 on the Maine two footers would have been able to move a LOT of pulp-wood without tearing up the track like some of the OF 2-4-4 Forneys did at speed.  A 3 foot Garratt would have been successful on the infamous grades and curves of the Uintah Railway.

Imagine a Garratt on the horrible track and roadbed of the RGS - blasphemy I know, but if that humble road could have somehow obtained one, one crew but the pulling power of double headed C-19s on that track.

More blasphemy, imagine two Garratts doubling the hill out of Chama.  Think of the tonnage two BIG Garratts could have moved up the hill, how many fewer "turns" would it have taken in the 1950s to move the oil and gas load empties up the hill and back to Alamosa.

Change a few details, and the NG-16 would look as American as those 2-10-0 "Russians" that got wide tires to narrow them down from 5 ft. to American standard gauge.  Foreign power that was built for export, order canceled, and the locomotive sold cheaply to a domestic railroad.  It works for me.

[aussie30inch]

hello evryone

Is int funny how far of track this has got. ebtnut ( whom I an guessing like the East Broad Top ) produced a great pic of a great loco. Yes we do all model different proto types , but lets be honest its a model no REAL. and American narrow Gauge is 3 Foot gauge not 30 inch so that would make anything produced out of place for those wanting US northwest models, wouldnt it?


Enjoy the Hobby and Have fun
From the 53 state of America

THE REST OF THE WORLD!


Geoff

[superthomasfan]

Here is a photo of the garret in the USA 

http://www.steamlocomotive.info/vlocomotive.cfm?Display=1489

[rayport]

It will be great if this thread encourages people to again look at the clever engineering and just great designs that H.W. Garratt came up with. I would, however, submit that the original K-1 (or K-2) produced for Tasmania or the later slightly heavier model made for the Darjeeling line would be better suited to On-30 and the current Bachmann line. Still the SA models do look great in steam on the Welsh Highland line in N. Wales.

[aussie30inch]

Hello again

Thanks for the imformation superthomasfan on the NGG-16 in the USA. It looks just at home there with its SAR rolling stock. Goes to show that they look good no matter where they are , and I agree the little K 1 from Tasmania is a little Gem! Really its where the who Garrett thing started so now today they found an active place in Railways all over the world




geoff

[ebtnut]

Part of my intent in starting this thread is that I believe there would be a substantial market for a Garrett world-wide.  Granted none ever ran in the US (at least back in the day), but they are still neat locos.  Based on the limited poll on this thread, it would appear that a number of those locos would sell here.  I didn't even know about the one in Texas, so that was worth it right there. 

One of the knocks on the prototype Garretts was that they tended to lose tractive effort as the coal/oil and water supplies were consumed, unlike a conventional loco where all that weight is carried in the tender.  In this country, they may have also suffered from the "NIH Sydrome" - i.e., Not Invented Here.  I have never run across any info that any domestic railroad ever inquired about a Garrett.

[Hamish K]

I always thought it was primarily a "horses for courses" thing. Not many places had both Garratts and Mallets (or simple articulted locomotives). The advantage of a Garratt over a Mallet was the ability to take tighter curves and that a larger diameter boiler could be fitted for a given loading gauge. The advantage of a Mallet over a Garratt was more weight over the drivers, especially when the fuel/water load was low and less locomotive  length.  Thus Garratts were likely to preferred when curves were particularly tight and loading gauges restricted. Mallets were likely to be preferred where the curves were less extreme and the loading gauge larger. Given the relatively large loading gauges in the US it is not surprising that Mallets were preferred, although there might have been a few particularly curvy lines where Garratts would have been advantageous.

Whether Bachmann is prepared to make an ON30 locomotive aimed to a fair extent  (though not entirely) at markets outside the USA I don't know. If they were a Garratt would be a good choice.

Hamish

[aussie30inch]

hello everyone

I agree with Hamish , the Garrett type would be a good choice weather and Australian or South African type to me wouldnt matter I would like Two of them.


Geoff

[rayport]

I suspect that one reason for choosing the Garratt may be the quality of coal available since the broad/deep firebox capability should be a great advantage with low quality fuel.
Also maybe this is a good thread to raise the issue of the universality of Bachmann's On30 line. Seems to me that just about anywhere in the world where there are On-30 modellers this is the preferred source of material -thus where something ran may be of much less importance than in other scales. On that thought how about the cool 0-6-0 + 0-6-0 Garratt's built for the Buthiduang-Maungdan tramway in Burma in 1913. Maybe a the perfect prototype for the Spectrum line - and it is the correct guage!.

[Jim Goodridge]

According to George Hilton in "American Narrow Gauge Railroads" on page 157 "he only articulated locomotives ever ordered by American common carrier narrow gauges were two similar but not identical tank engines of the Uintah Railway"

That being said, how many people bought the 2-6-6-2 in large scale and how many of those model the Uintah or Sumpter Valley Railway which bought them from the Uintah and rebuilt them with tenders.

If you can make a case for a 2-6-6-2 on your layout you can certainly make a case for a Beyer-Garrett.  I decided that Wellington Collieries on Vancouver Island not only did not change from 30 inch gauge to standard gauge but must have ordered a pair of Garrets as soon as they became available.

Best Regards
Jim

[ksivils]

Given Mr. Riley's penchant for picking real 30 inch prototypes and/or prototypes that may have been a different gauge but certainly could have been manufactured in 30 inch gauge, I would think there are two Garratts that fit this bill and are well known amongst fans of narrow gauge Garratts.

The first would be the G-class Garratt (I think that is what it is classified as) on the Puffing Billy Railway.  This locomotive is a 2-6-0+0-6-2 and is was built to run on 30 inch gauged track.

The other is a smaller locomotive and probably better known and would be my personal first choice. This is the NG-16 class 2-6-2+2-6-2 Garratts that were built for service in South Africa.  One of these now resides in Texas and three others are on the rebuilt Welsh Highlands Railway and if all three are not in service right now, they are in a cycle of being restored/rebuilt and then going back into operating service.  While these locomotives are 2 foot gauge locomotives, they certainly could have been built as 30 inch gauge locomotives and I think (personal opinion) are the most handsome narrow gauge Garratts built.

Narrow gauge Garratts ran all over the world - just not in the United States.  So the question is, how well does On30/O 16.5 mm sell globally and not just in the United States? One can only dream and hope.

My roster will see the addition of a second OF 4-4-0, a Heisler IF Bachmann ever produces one and that will be it.  Unless Bachmann produces a Garratt.  Without a Garratt, the Kentwood & Southern will have 9 steam locomotives - all but one Bachmann - and two diesels.  Probably too much power - even I have reached the point where I want to stop spending money on more motive power and obtaining other things for the railroad.  Not the news Mr. Riley wants to hear I am sure.

So, after the second OF 4-4-0, only a Heisler and a Garratt will probably be added, if and when they are produced.

By the way, Garratts would have been great on southern swamp loggers I think.  Light axle loadings but lots of power for their size! They had the ability to make sharper turns than longer wheelbased motive power would have be able too and eliminate double heading to boot.  Just a thought.

[Nick_Burman]

For the time being a Garrat is not in the cards, but I would consider one if B'mann (or some other large manufacturer) were to produce it. Not the NGG16 though, it's too associated with the SAR NG lines. Would consider a NGG11 or a G class, however my favorites are the Sierra Leone locos, which are as "generic" as Garrats go http://users.powernet.co.uk/hamilton/bgpix/slgr50.jpg or the loco delivered to Nepal, which essentially is a copy of the Sierra Leone locohttp://users.powernet.co.uk/hamilton/bgpix/ngr6.jpg. In any case, a 2-6-2+2-6-2 Garrat with inside frames.



Cheers NB

[ksivils]

Nick,

Just curious, what is the drawback to being associated with SAR?  Is this sort of like "anything but Colorado" thinking?

The NG-16s are my personal favorite and for a kind of "off brand" locomotive type, it would seem that Bachmann, should they take the plunge, would want to produce the best known of the type to generate maximum sales.

Not to mention, three (possibly four) of these are in service on the rebuilt Welsh Highlands Railway, there is one in the U.S., and I think a couple of others elsewhere.

I would also go for the G-Class on the Puffing Billy which is even bigger.

[Nick_Burman]

No Kevin, it's just the fact that the NGG16 is as associated and unique to the SAR as the K-27 is to the D&RGW - an iconic locomotive which would be difficult to "justify" in other situations (other than tourist roads like the WHR). I would like to see a "generic" Garrat, one which would look at home be it in South America, Africa, Asia, the UK - or the US, why not?The Bachmann Consolidation of Garratdom... The G42 has some elements of this "generic" Garrat and would be a good choice, but the SLGR locos (in their later guise, with electric headlights) are my firm favorites as 30" gauge Garrats go.

Cheers NB