Kaydee Couplers

[db22]

I bought a bulk pack of Kaydee # 5 and attempted to instal them on my Bachmann passenger cars. These cars have lights and the coupler housing is articulated so that it turns with the wheels around the curves. It seems that everyone loves the Kaydees but I have not got any to work. I don't know why you would need instructions but it seems that there is only one way to instal them: Remove old - hold coupler on place over the screw hole - lay the copper spring plate over the coupler - Place the plastic cover over all of the parts and screw in the screw. Now the coupler does not spring, feels tight and is about 5% as good as the original Bachmann couplers. What am I missing here? Not to mention the fact that the frustration of installing these things is enormous or is it my fingers are slightly bigger than a new-borns. I would contact Kaydee but I know that this board must have some feedback on how bad these things are.

[Tylerf]

from what ive heard and found kadees are the most reliable couplers because of the fact that there made of metal, restraining the coupler from bending up and down like plastic ones do. every time ive installed them it goes pretty smooth and ive found the only hard thing is dealing with the tiny springs, but ive never installed kadees in bachmann cars so it may be a bit harder, plus theres probably added difficulties with the arrticulated couple housing. What i would do is probably replace the bachmann coupler box with the kadee ones. its suprisingly not as hard as it seems. Are the coupler boxes on the cars the full ones or the ones with the open bottom with a piece of plastic down the middle?

[Guilford Guy]

Try loosening the screw... The copper piece is the centering spring. If the cover is screwed on too tight, the coupler won't have any lateral play. Try putting the copper piece on first, then the coupler, or "assemble" them prior to placing them in.

[Jim Banner]

... I don't know why you would need instructions ...

Surprisingly, most people do read the instructions, at least the first time they install Kaydees.  And most people are happy with their results.

Without instructions, people tend to do funny things like over tightening the screw, installing the spring under the coupler instead of over it, trying to pivot the coupler on a screw, mounting the couplers with the heads too high or too low, neglecting to adjust the trip pin, forgetting to lubricate the shanks, and in one memorable case, even mounting them upside down. 

[Hunt]

I bought a bulk pack of Kaydee # 5 and attempted to instal them on my Bachmann passenger cars. ....

You have the wrong item.

Here is what Kadee recommends
http://www.kadee.com/conv/pdf/b39.pdf

[ebtbob]

Good Morning All,

       Several manufacturers put both freight and passenger cars that have shallow coupler boxes.  Athearn and Walters come to mind.   With these shallow boxes,  many times a KD 5 with its brass centering plate get pinned,  thus not allowing the coupler to pivot properly.
        To correct this problem,  simply buy the new KD 148,  or 158(semi scale) coupler.    The 148 is simply a KD5 with two metal wire "cats whiskers" on the end of the shank to help center the coupler.   The 158 is the semi scale "cat whisker" version.
         Use of either of these two couplers will help in many cases.    Hopefully,  this style of coupler will eventually be availabe in different shank lengths as well as over and under knuckles.
          In the end,   though,   Hunt's advice is dead on.   Go to the link he mentioned and get Kadee's recommendations for couplers.

Bob

[db22]

Thank you all for your responses. Maybe I did buy the wrong ones but my research showed #5. Trying to find the correct Kaydee is a real trick - what happened to the standardization? Does NMRA specify or should they produce a recommended device spec?
I have seen clubs that specify Kaydee - that should limit its membership.
I am assembling them correctly but they are inadequate.
It appears to me that if you buy the car, double its cost by buying couplers, spend more time fitting the couplers than running the car, modifying the car by cutting this and filing that, that you may end up with a better car.
Mr. Bachmann, if you buy a Spectrum car, should it really be necessary to upgrade it out of the box?

[Woody Elmore]

Kadee has been the industry standard for many years. They have a multitude of styles because the company has reached out to supply couplers for many applications.

The NMRA has nothing to do with Kadee couplers, other than establish the coupler height.

Club membership doesn't suffer because of a requirement to use Kadee couplers. They know that, when installed properly and given the occasional servicing that any mechanical device requires, Kadee couplers will last for many years.

I have several old kit built cars from the fifties. They  have Central Valley trucks (pre RP-25 contour) and Kadee "K" series couplers (non magnetic type.) The cars roll and couple as well today as they did fifty years ago.

[Jhanecker2]

I redid all of my rolling stock and used Kadee and Bachmann couplers. Some cars were easier to do with Bachmann couplers, than the Kadee #5. If and when the Bachmann Couplers wear out I will replace them with the Kadee #148 and / or # 158 whisker couplers . Some cars could only be changed utilizing  Kadee couplers  of various Numbers .  The easiest replacements were the Marklin couplers with the NEM Bachmann couplers.  It usually gets down to cost and availability  of product .

[bevernie]

 :DGREETINGS!! Guys, excuse me, but I'm confused! (As always!!) I've been wanting to change all my cars over, but because of finances, have not beemn able to do so!
My question, now, though, is whether it is possible to just change the coupler, or do I need a box that attaches to the frame? Can you attach the KAYDEE coupler using the "box" that is made onto the wheelset with the old "horn-hook" couplers?
                                                                                         THANX!!
                                                                                        Ernie

[Woody Elmore]

Sometimes the Kadee coupler will just drop into the original coupler pocket. Some people cut off the original box and use the ones supplied by Kadee .  This requires a little painless surgery and it is a trial and error process. I'm sure there are several readers of this board that can give more detailed information.

I understand that you can also apply Kadee couplers to talgo (truck mounted) couplers. Since I have never used truck mounted couplings, I can't comment on the ease or difficulty (or wisdom) in swapping over to Kadee.

Do get yourself some basic items such as a Kadee coupler height gauge. Also, using Kadee graphite in a tube - Grease-em- will make your couplers work well.

Everybody feels the cost of converting to Kadees. When I was actively involved in HO I did a couple of cars at a time, using a transition car - X2f on one end, Kadee on the other - to allow me to mix cars with different couplers.

[Jhanecker2]

to Bevernie : Yes you can just Drop in the # 148 coupler in to replace most horn hook Couplers in their original Box .

to Woody Elmore : There is an adapter part for talgo mounts by Kadee that works well.  The #148 Coupler should work as will the bachmann couplers .  Do buy the insertion tool for the talgo adapters, it make it less painful . Good Luck with Job .   Please note after all the frustration two fingers of Scotch does Help .  The prevoius advice only applies to those over 21 years of age and not members of   AA .

Happy Holidays to ALL , I"ve got to have breakfast and deliver Cookies and CheeseCake to Neighbors.

[lirrman]

I had to take a quick run down to the train room to see what couplers I used on my lighted Spectrum heavyweights.  I used #5's on all the cars and they worked just fine.  Don't tighten the screw too much. Play with them as you install.  The only car that did not have a swivel couple was the platform end of the obs.  Take care.
LIRRMAN

[Yampa Bob]

Since I don't run long passenger cars, I use Kadee #148 exclusively on all my cars. If the car has molded in boxes, I cut them off and use the boxes that come with the couplers, as they provide a more precise fit and eliminates vertical slop.  Extra boxes are available, they are much easier for me to attach, since I can hold onto the knuckle or gladhand of the assembled unit with one hand and insert the screw with the other.   

Woody mentioned "painless surgery and a bit of trial and error".  Here is a number everyone should record for reference, that will eliminate a lot of the trial and error.

If the difference between the bottom of the floor or chassis, and the bolster flat is exactly 3/16",  the Kadee #148 assembled into the supplied box will mount very close to the correct coupler knuckle height. (usually within .005" ).

My digital caliper has a depth gauge rod that makes it easy to find the difference, and shim or file the floor or bolster flat to achieve the correct starting point. 

I have never found the need to use the Kadee washers for any adjustment using this method. A bit of preparation makes the installation a breeze. For more information please refer to my thread titled "Talgo Upgrade",

http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/board/index.php/topic,4917.0.html

[ebtnut]

With regard to the comment about "standardization"--This was a hot topic with the NMRA back in the early 1950's.  There was a lot of wrangling about whether there should be a standard coupler or not, and what it should do.  They didn't want to formally endorse one supplier's design, either, knowing that the technology might evolve.  Back then, many modelers were using the Mantua loop and hook.  It looked like h*ll, but it worked pretty well.  Other choices included using dummy couplers, or the MDC working knuckle.  The latter looked good, but depended on gravity to pull the trip pin down when coupling, and a raised ramp to uncouple.

The story of the X2F, or "horn-hook" is another long digression I won't recount. 

The NMRA did eventually come out with an RP for coupler box design, but most manufacturers had gone off and done their own thing, built around their own versions of the horn-hook.  The ultimate result was that Kadee wound up having to design about a dozen different couplers with various shank heights and centering mechanisims to help modelers deal with converting various types of rolling stock.  And it was really only when some of Kadee's original patents expired that other folks (McHenry, Bachmann, etc.) began offering working knuckle couplers in lieu of the horn-hooks.  This sea change began in the 1980's.