Sound: DC vs DCC

[WGL]

  Seeing DC locomotives with sound advertised makes me curious how they work vs DCC locomotives with sound.

[Jim Banner]

One of the schemes (Soundtraxx Sierra) is to trigger sounds by changes in throttle voltage e.g. a quick increase in voltage to blow a crossing sequence on the horn or whistle; or turn sounds on and off by voltage levels e.g. bell on below a certain speed; or change sounds as motor voltage changes e.g. chuff rate or diesel engine ramp up; or trigger sounds by track side magnets e.g. bell and whistle/horn; or turn sounds on and off at random time intervals e.g. safety valve pop off; or trigger sounds by on board push buttond e.g. coupler clank trigger by a switch built into the coupler.

[WGL]

 Thanks for the explanation of the various options.

[Yampa Bob]

I've only had one experience with sound, a Bachmann Heavy Mountain.  I thought the chuff  rate / timing was excellent on DC.  However, on either DC or DCC, the sound didn't change for a grade or heavy load, compared to just coasting on the flats. 

With my EZ Command I had limited sounds, I did mute the rod clank as I found it a bit annoying.  At a very slight throttle setting, before the loco actually moves, there is a sound I can't describe, a very soft clank clank.  Those familiar with steamers can explain what the sound is, I would be curious to know.  It's not a hissing sound, but could be the mechanical sound of a safety valve.  A better description might be a rythmic "tink,tink". 

[pdlethbridge]

It could be the fireman shoveling coal, ya, I know, it's a mountain and they had stokers.

[Jim Banner]

It could also be the clank-clank of an air compressor or water pump.

[Yampa Bob]

It could be.  I didn't mean to pirate WGL's thread, I don't know much about sound.  Maybe someone else has more comments regarding his concerns. 

[WGL]

 My Intermountain F7A with DCC & Sound arrived, & I am learning what my E-Z Command's function buttons will do.  I am enjoying it.  Some sounds are automatic, like the engine starting up & idling & the sound like air being released.  F1 rings the bell.  F2 blows the horn until I press it again.  There is a sound like couplers & a sound like cars jerking each other forward.  F8 lowers the volume.  I can turn some lights on & off, but I don't seem to be able to dim them or turn all of them off, as I can with my Spectrum SD-45 DCC.
  The Quantum QSI manual says that F10 reports the address in neutral & the scale speed when in motion!  I'd love to hear a voice reporting the mph, but F10 turns the headlights on & off, instead.  There seems to be a magnetic wand for moving a lever in the locomotive to change the master volume.  I can see the opening on top of the locomotive where the sound comes out.
  What I haven't been able to do, as I reported in the HO discussion, is get E-Z Command to change either of my DCC locomotives from Address 3 to another address.

[Jim Banner]

Not all decoders have the same functions.  And even ones that do may or may not use certain functions the same way or use them at all in a given installation.  If there are not enough functions to control all the lights separately, then some lights may be left on or one function may control several lights.

As far as the decoder reporting back, I imagine it would if E-Z Command function 10 were really function 10.  The rest of the world calls it function 0.  I am not sure why the designers chose to relabel it - possibly they were worried that people might have problems with something being #0 (number zero.)

What I cannot figure out is the use of the decoder reporting back its address when you have to already know its address to activate its function 10.

[Yampa Bob]

I have been studying the EZ Command manual trying to determine why WGL can't change the address on either of his locos.

There are 4 scenarios in the manual regarding changing or setting the address, but I keep thinking there is a 5th scenario that is not clarified. I'm not sure if I can explain it correctly, but will give it a shot.

1.  Top of page 3.  For factory equipped decoders that are supposedly preset to 3.  No problem here, I was able to change the address on 8 new Bachmann locos.

2.  Bottom of page 3.  Previously assigned addresses less than 10, assuming the address is known or recorded. Basically we are just amending scenario 1 by pressing the known number and the stop button instead of the default 3.

3.  Bottom of page 3.  Previously assigned addresses higher than 10, which may or may not be known or recorded.  If you don't know what it is, how can you say, well it's higher than 10? 

4.  Page 5, user installed decoders.  Assuming that all all decoders come preset to 3, you could use scenario Number 1, but the programming track protects the decoder in case you goofed in the installation.

5.  Missing Scenario, back to page 3. If you previously assigned an address other than 3 with EZ Command, then it has to be lower than 10.  But what if you forgot the address.  You could push each button to see which one works.  That's pretty crude.  If you bought a used loco, it could have any address from 1 to 9,999, could be lower than or higher than 10.

If you don't know the address, just use the bottom section on page 3. Note the locomotive is not on the track, but you preset the controller to send the number 3 address.  My theory is, when you place the loco on the track, the decoder changes to 3, (resets to the default) regardless of its previous setting.  Then when you push say number 5, the decoder changes again to 5.  This method seems to be "When all else fails".  I'm also thinking that if this method fails, then the decoder or the controller might be defective.  Since WGL is unable to change any loco, even with this method, I suspect a defective controller. 

[grumpy]

Bob
I have a 4-8-2 Heavy Mountain from Bachman . The noise you hear is the clank clank of the air compressor and the water pump. Probably not an exact reproduction but it is noise.
Don

[Yampa Bob]

I know steam locos make some kind of noise when just sitting still. The noise I heard was at about 5 second intervals, hollow sound like tapping a glass with a spoon.  I thought the sounds were pretty neat.

Had it not been for some serious mechanical defects, I would have kept the Mountain with sound.  However the whistle sounded more like a diesel horn, not very realistic.

I am seriously considering a 4-6-0 Union Pacific, which brings up a couple of questions.  Does the UP model have Stephenson valve gear?  Prototypically it would, and I like it for the simplicity of maintenance and repair. Also, does the whistle sound authenic?  

[WGL]

 I solved my problem but not by following the manual!  I bought my E-Z Command "Like New" from eBay.  The instructional DVD was missing, however, so I e-mailed the seller.   The DVD arrived Friday.  It is very helpful, because it shows someone programming the control.  The instructions are different from those in the manual! 
  While the manual says to press & release address 3 & Stop simultaneously, the DVD says to press 3, hold it down, press & release Stop & then release 3.  The the LED blinked faster than I'd ever seen it.  Then, I clicked Address 1, the locomotive moved slightly, & the LED blinked slower.  Finally, I pressed Stop, & my F7A locomotive was programmed for Address!

[Yampa Bob]

Congratulations!  Perhaps that's why I experienced a little trouble at first.  I watched the DVD first, then referred to the manual, however once I got the hang of it didn't have any problems.  I will definitely watch the DVD again and correct my manual.

[pdlethbridge]

I have only heard one ho engine with great sound, that was BLI's N&W class A 2-6-6-4 Their whistle is dead on while the whistle of their N&W J 4-8-4 is just dead. The larger scales produce better sound because their speakers are better.