Tender swapout

[jaas6uvk]

I have joined this group seeking assistance.
I have two new in the box Spectrum item 81607 USRA 4-8-2 light mountain
locomotives for the Southern Pacific. Both come with non typical Square coal tenders.
I have purchased two newSpectrum item 89911 Ho Vanderbilt Hicken tenders. Dcc Ready.
Neither loco will run on analog DC with the new tenders. Both will run with the little square"dcc ready" tenders supplied with the locos. When the Vandy is plugged in the loco does not get power to the motor but the light glows from dim to bright as the voltage is increased.
I noted that the original tender circuit board is of a different design from the Vandy's.
What can be done to make the Vandy's work. I may want DCC later but now want the locos to run on DC.
Any suggestions short of dumping them on Ebay>
Jerold Shelby, T&NO, Texas

[r0bert]

you have to move all of the electronics from the old tender to the new one.

[SteamGene]

Robert is right.  Remove the circuit board from the rectangular tender and put it in the Hickens.  It's an easy swap.  If you were to then couple the USRA tender,  the locomotive won't work.
There were several thousand angry posts about this on the old board. 
Compatability check as of right now:
Consolidation and USRA light Mountain, and the "medium" Vanderbilt are interchangable.
USRA heavy Mountain and USRA light Mallet interchanable.
Russian Decapod probably interchangable with Consolidation/ light Mountain/ medium Vanderbilt. 
USRA light Santa Fe unique and will be damaged by swapping an identical appearing USRA heavy Mountain tender. 
Gene

[GS_Train]

Hi Jerold
I would be a buyer for one of the USRA rectangular tenders, after you have switched the boards.
Gary

[jaas6uvk]

Thanks to all. I guess I will get out the old soldering iron. Just two red and two blacks from the trucks pickup.
Gary I will contact you when I make the swap. Only my AC9 burns coal.
Jerold

[Atlantic Central]

Jerold,

OR you could read the following and simply reposition the wires in the plugs:

Tender Swap â€" Bachmann medium Vanderbilt oil tender (Item #89905) with 63” driver 10 wheeler (Item #82307)

Initial test using jumpers provided with the tender â€" dead short, no operation.

Original plan â€" move 10 wheeler circuit board into new tender. This proved unworkable for several reasons, 10 wheeler circuit board too large and wires too short to fit into Vanderbilt tender without major modifications to both the tender and the circuit board.

New plan â€" can existing circuit board from Vanderbilt tender be rewired to work with 10 wheeler. A simple examination of both circuit boards revealed that while different, they both have the same basic connections, so the problem must lie in pin assignments in the connectors.

Tracing wires and a few simple checks revealed that the two wire connector simply brings the loco pickups to the circuit board. Reversing the wires on one end of the two wire jumper corrected this. Now the loco runs but in the wrong direction.

Two of the wires on the four wire plug are the motor leads. Reversing them gave us correct operational direction.

This only left the front headlight. The circuit board in the Vanderbilt tender is for the 2-8-0 which has 12 volt lamps for lighting. The 10 wheeler uses LED’s, this is the main reason the circuit board is different. Rather than trying to modify the circuit, I simply replaced the loco headlight LED with a 12 volt lamp.

Additionally I added weight to the Vanderbilt tender bringing it weight to about 5 oz. and replaced all couplers with genuine Kadee #148 on both the loco front and tender.

Result â€" loco now converted, runs well with original 10 wheeler draw bar and looks great. 

This issue seems to be tied to what tender cam with what loco in the first place. I do not have all of the Bachmann spectrum locos, but from what I have seen, read and experianced, the following may be a good begining of a compatablity chart:

Light Mouintain & Consolidation will work with all of the "medium" tenders.

Heavy Mountain and 2-6-6-2 will work with the long coal tender, hicken tender and long vandy tender

Russian shares same tender with some 10 wheelers, so I am guessing they share the same circuit board.

The 10 wheeler is really a wild card here because it comes with three different tenders, depending on roadname. Some have the low, small "pre 1900" looking tender, some have the small tender from the Russian and one has the same tender as the consolidation, but obviously with a different circuit board.

But again, I think most of these differences are just the pin assignments and the type of headlight.

To all regarding this issue. I am really at a loss to understand why so many see swaping the boards as easier or better than moveing a few pin locations and maybe replacing a headlight. None of the different boards seem to interchange from a mounting standpoint. That means some sort of hacking, rigging, make shift attachment. And, rewiring leaves the original tender in tact to be used with the original loco or be refitted for some other loco.

Sheldon

[GN.2-6-8-0]

In the last post it was stated that the 10 wheeler and Russian decapod 2-10-0 share the same tender.
would it then be possible to swap a 2-10-0 tender with sound to a 10 wheeler that does not thereby providing sound for the 10 wheeler
Until such time as a sound equipted 10 wheeler becomes available?
Or are there other conflicts.

[Atlantic Central]

GN.2-6-8-0,

Please understand that the info posted above was tested and writen before Bachmann offered any sound locos AND, I do not use DCC or have any Bachmann sound equiped locos.

Because of these facts, I have no information on the compatability of Bachmann sound equiped tenders with any of the older non sound equiped locos.

Hopefull the Bach Man or someone else with such knowledge can share it here.

Sheldon

[jaas6uvk]

As a newbie here can some one tell me what flag to raise to get the Bach mann involved in my tender swap poroblem.
Jerold

[SteamGene]

So far, white seems the only one useful.   
CGne

[Atlantic Central]

Jerold,

Gene is right, you will not get much help from Bachmann on this issue. If you are running DC or installing your own DCC decoders, carefully read my post above and you will se that by moving the wires in the plugs and possably replacing a light bulb or two, you can make most any reasonable tender swap without changing boards or otherwise cutting up the tenders.

But Bachmann has never published anything on this nor had much comment on this board about the subject.

Sheldon

[jaas6uvk]

Hi Sheldon,
I was hoping they had better support. That is the problem when you live long enough to retire and enjoy a hobby or wish to travel. I've found that I have outlived the old fashion notions of custermer service, quality USA made products and pride in workmanship.
Thank goodest there are still good guy like you fellows on the various list and groups to form mutual help forums.
I'll set down and work out the pins to change and "git'er done!"
Thanks, Jerold

[the Bach-man]

Dear Jerold,
As posted here, and in many previous posts, when swapping a tender, one should also swap the PC board. This is the most foolproof method.
Have fun!
the Bach-man

[Atlantic Central]

Dear Bach Man,

It is easy to say "swap the boards" and that may be the company line, and that's OK, but have YOU ever tried to put the circuit board from the ten wheeler in a medium vandy tender? I'm not saying it can't be done, but it would be a little more than a swap, actually it would be lot more. It would be major physical and electrical surgery.

Hence the information I have provided above for your customers. And I assure you it works. And it is much less work and provides a much more professional result.

Based on my experiances with your tenders, any non vandy to vandy swap would present similar challenges and rewiring would again be the better choice.

Sheldon 

[barrowsr]

Thanks Sheldon,

I've saved your notes to my model RR archives. 

Bachman:

I would think it would be in the company's intested to standardize tender connections - You'd sell more accessory tenders if the swap were plug and play.

Robin