Power House??

[UP Railroader]

Good evening all,
I am a new commer to the art of Model Railroading and I was wondering How you all power your trainsets. I was wondering if i would need to buy a genorator to power my up comming Layout( 6x10 with a 2 foot cut out Hemisphere). I already know that i will have a lot of track running in and out of every nook and cranny. I plan on being able to lower it from my celing. let me know if i need to be more specific.
Please shed light on the subject?!?
many Thanks,
UP Railroader

[chuff_n_puff]

I don't know how you are going to suspend your track from the ceiling, but you are asking for trouble coming out the gate. If your tracks are not mounted on something solid and placed perfect, you will not be able to keep your trains on the rails. The least movement of a rail will cause a derailment. Mine is on the ceiling, but around the perimeter of the room, like you see some restaurants with G scale trains. Mine are laid on 1 inch birch and solid enough you can do chin ups on them, but that is what it takes. If you don't take extra care in placing your rails as straight as possible on a solid foundation, you will have one continual nightmare, as nothing will stay on the rails. I hot glued my rails down as I never had any luck with nails, they will warp your tracks at every nail placement. As far as for power, are you going DCC or just DC? With DC you can only run 1 train at a time. With DCC you can run as many as you want at the same time, but it is according to how much you want to spend. I started out with a $150 train set 6 years ago. I now have almost $19,000 in my layout! I did use Digitrax but went to MRC's Prodigy Wireless with 28 function control. One of my trains is MTH's K-4, which has a 28 function decoder. I have 18 trains on 3 sets of rails and run 4 at a time. That is about all you can keep up with at a time. Anyhow it is kind of up to you as to how much you are going to get into railroading. It doesn't take long to invest a fortune.

[Jim Banner]

I don't see too much problem with a 6 x 10 table, even if you want to lift it up to the ceiling using ropes and pulleys.  But I assume that it will sit on legs when it is down.  I have one table of those dimensions; one end sits on a ledger bolted to a wall, the other end has two legs, right at the end.  But four legs would do as well, as long as you control the sway.  I used a pair of #1 (Canadian Standards) spruce 2 x 6 lengthwise stringers with 1 x 4 cross joists and a 1/2" plywood top.  I use heavy plaster scenery and have no problems with deflection, even when I climb up on the table to work.  If you don't have enough ceiling height to accommodate the 1 x 6's, use 1 x 4 to build box beams with the joists on hangers between them and put the legs at the quarter points.  This will reduce the maximum span to 5' which a 4 or 5 inch wide box beam can easily handle if you use 1/2 plywood on the bottom of the beam as well as the top.  With the box beam, you would want to lift at the quarter points as well, but 1/2" tee nuts set into the top plywood from underneath would allow you to use four 1/2" eye bolts that you could remove once the layout was down and sitting on it legs.  Don't cut corners on hardware - you really do not want something as heavy as a piano landing on your head.

I agree with chuff-n-puff that a table swaying around, suspended by ropes from the ceiling could be less than desirable.  But with legs, it should be quite doable.   

A layout of the size you are contemplating could easily support several trains running at once.  Based on that, you might want to consider using Digital Command Control (DCC) right from the start.  But read up on the requirements and capabilities of DCC and other multi-train systems before making any decision.

[Rickmartin]

You may find it takes a "Superman" to raise and lower your layout. I once visited a fellow who did what you want to do in his garage. He found a hand operated winch from a boat trailer and rigged  that to raise and lower the layout. once lowered he sat it on some heavy duty supports. You will need something like that because you will find the framework will have to be extra heavy duty in order to stand the strain of being lifted and lowered. If you go cheap on the bracing the benchwork will begin to warp and your layout will be pretty much useless. As for powering your layout you can go one of two ways. Analog DC will work and you can run multiple trains after a fashion. You will have to isolate your track into blocks with some 3 position switches to power each block. This will require using two seperate powerpacks/throttles (invest in as many layout planning/scenery/electrical wiring books as you can.) the answers are there for you. The other more expensive but simpler was is to go DCC. Hope that helps. Rick Martin

[Redtail67]

I like that idea, of being hauled, up and out of the way, to the ceiling. I am going to give that some serious thought.

Redtail67

[Yampa Bob]

A platform doesn't have to be all that heavy, just rigid so it won't twist or sag.

Consider how hollow core doors are made, small strips sandwiched between thin veneers of mahogany ply. They are light and won't twist.  If you have some basic carpenter skills and tools, you can make your own laminations, or get assistance from an experienced carpenter.

I have seen damaged doors as large as 5' X 8' selling at auctions at very low bids.  Over the years I have used them for all kinds of applications. 

Glue and laminate rigid foam board between 1/4" plywood, the lamination will be quite rigid. 

Just some food for thought, there are many ways to make a platform rigid and still be very light by laminating thin materials. I'm sure with a little thought, one could design a 5 X 9 platform that wouldn't weigh over 20 pounds, not including any foam or homasote top layer.   

Many modelers with limited space are thinking lightweight and portable, do a search and you will find lots of ideas.  If you can't find what you need, get in touch with me and I will work up some designs. 

Bob

[UP Railroader]

Yampa Bob,
I understand that you want to help me, and that is greatly appreciated. do you have a proposed track plan, still sketchy on where i want to locate the plan {Desert, Mountains,exc...} I like the way bridges look on Model Railroads. Would like to encorperate at least one.
   Would you mind going into more detail on the Resin piece of your last post, please. That, what you sugested is a better idea than my 2x4 plan for the supprot for the underside. at the best it will look like a honey comb of one foot sq boxes, i presume that this will be too heavy, so could you tell me more about the resin thing. other wise i would like some information on DCC, still scratching my head, herd it would be easier to go this way.
Thanks for all the help,
UP Railroder

Still open for sugestions, will post a proposed track plan by Wednesday{4-23-08}

[Woody Elmore]

If you are going to hoist this layout up to a ceiling, I think you can rule out mountain railroading unless you opt for phoney looking train set tunnels.

Bob has a good idea about laminating a base.

The tricky part will be getting hardware that is safe and easy to use. Have you explored all the possiblilities?

[UP Railroader]

Hi All,
I am still hunting around, but i recieved some stuff yesterday and i will look over it in like 3 hours {3:20}. will see what i have to buy to get to the final stage of construction. Just remember that i am new to this so let me know is i am diving into deep water. I have confidence though, so please stick with me in my questionare mode.
Thanks,
UP Railroader

[hgcHO]

"...i would like some information on DCC, still scratching my head, herd it would be easier to go this way..."

I would suggest a simple DCC set up [maybe even Bachmann Digital Commander Deluxe - you might be able to find this two DCC engine set for way under 200.00].

You can run both DC engines and DCC engines on this DCC track and this is a easy way to learn both. Read model train mag. and as time goes your knowledge will grow.  Also suggest any local train club that you could visit  and ask questions about layout and setups.  Members love to talk about their trains.

HGC

[Yampa Bob]

As you can see, there are so many options and methods to consider before you start building layouts and laying track. 

I spent an entire year researching every possible option I could think of.  Don't rush into building something that you may find later won't work for you, and have to start all over.  It takes a lot of planning.   Try to think where you want to be a year from now, then plan toward that goal.

Do you want continuous running or lots of yard switching? Single main line with lots of storage, or double track loops?  These have to be your decisions, it is your railroad.  I bet in the whole world there are not 2 layouts exactly alike, each is unique and is operated differently. 

[SteamGene]

Bob - I'd agree with that.  If Sheldon used the layout he designed for the VT&P, it wouldn't be the same as what the VT&P has done with it, and his would look different from what he originally designed.  I haven't done much but:
1.  Engine storage tracks in the staging area
2.  One helix removed with the grade beginning earlier, so it's longer and removes the helix. 
3.  Water tank; coaling tower; sand storage and tower; and small station facilites at the top of the helix. 
4.  Second mine tipple on the peninsula without the helix.
5.  MOW track for South River Yard
6.  second approach track for the turntable in South River Yard
7.  double ended spur for icing facility west of Leesboro
Gene