geeks vs. bookworms

[TonyD]

I didn't just realize this, had a hunch for a while now, but -not just newbies, everyone getting into this hobby since the WWW, doesn't own railroad books. My first RR book was about toys and models compare to prototyes since day one. I memorized it. the 'complete book on model RR'ing' from the mid 60's, ingrained. The moldy old hardbounds to people's desktop on their obsession, on and on, 2 walls full to the ceiling. And a book had to be researched, verified etc etc. before it hit the presses. The web doesn't seem to have one wall full of info unless it is in the digital age. The only stupid question is the one not asked... but, unless people buy BOOKS on a subject, they are slingin' something at a glass doorknob.... what sort of 'forumite' is going to respond to your need? A picture is worth a thousand words right? Only ones out there are semi lgally scanned or off a card from someone's last vacation, I come to the conclusion that most of the questions lately could have been answered by refering to books rather than the web, which always was, always will be 'garbage in- garbage out', AND have to trust in the person who developed the page? site?  whatever. If he is full of it, you are up the creek. Compare to the costs of most models, a book on the subject now and then isn't a bad investment. I wonder if someone with more computor skills than me could develop a 'help page' for people who could really use a 'good read'...... 

[Jim Banner]

Having published articles both on paper and on the net, I do agree in part with what you are saying.  There is a great deal more editing, checking and peer review before ink hits paper than before uploading to your own web site.  This is both a bonus and a curse.  The bonus is as you have mentioned.  The down side is that once the ink hits the paper, typos, misprints and factual errors are very, very difficult to correct.  With web publishing, those same errors, once brought to the author's attention, can be fixed in minutes.  Even better, if a reader suggest an easier or better way or just an alternate way, it is easy to add the new information into a web publication.

Another great advantage of web publication is that the author is not so limited in what he/she can include, both in terms of words and in terms of photographs.  Extra paper and ink cost money, so paper book/magazine editors are strongly encouraged to reduce articles to a bare minimum.  No doubt you have at times been left wondering just what the author was trying to explain when you were reading paper and ink do-it-yourself articles.  With web publication, it is easy to include a few more sentences to let your reader know exactly what you are saying or to show other views of the project in extra photographs.  Even better, these extra sentences and photographs can be added at any time as the author receives feedback from the readers.

As far as determining credibility is concerned, it is much the same with web publication as it is with paper and ink publication or for that matter, with forums such as this one.  If the author is conscientious with his use of language and spelling, it is likely that he/she is also conscientious with the facts.  For a closer check, read what the author has to say about subjects with which you are already conversant.  From this, you can judge the reliability on subjects which are new to you.  Just be careful not to fall in the trap of mistaking your preference for one method of doing something as proof that the author's preference for a different but equally valid method necessarily makes him wrong.

[Yampa Bob]

Those fortunate enough to start the hobby 30 or 40 years ago probably have a full library of books, accumulated over the years.

Most books, if you can call them that are highly specialized.  Maybe the publisher's theory is why print one large book that has everything to sell for around $50, when they can produce hundreds selling at $15?  Consider Kalmbach and Carstens for example.  People don't want hard bound classics, just throw away magazines.

It would take a literal "Britannica" to cover every possible detail from first selection to the latest technology.  But as you have witnessed in many posts here, modelers today don't want written rhetoric or instructions, they want pictures and videos. After doing a pictorial on updating trucks and couplers, someone commented that the article was great, but would have been better with a video. 

I hate to say it, but it's almost as if they want someone else to do their work and thinking for them.  Old timers such as myself didn't always have access to books, or couldn't afford them.   We learned by doing, experimenting and making mistakes.  We can teach them "till the cows come home", but nothing is accomplished until they start using their hands and gray matter and get to the task. 

I consider myself a craftsman after 60 years of carving, cutting, gluing, sanding, learning all sorts of tricks along the way.  I started out with a single edge razor blade my dad gave me, a tube of Ambroid and some pieces of balsa and tissue paper they called a "kit", a pair of old pliers to bend baling wire, a rusty hammer and a few nails. 

I have no railroading books except for the Bachmann and Walthers catalogs.  I can no longer read the small texts of books.  Without the many resources of the internet I would have learned nothing about the history of trains, their development and progress. 

As for this railroad Britannica, who would do the research, writing, photography?  Who would the expert be to verify all the facts?

Yes, there is a lot of garbage on the net.  I discovered this while researching the Rio Grande Railroad.  Conflicting facts, opinions, and sometimes just copying someone else's errors.  One has to be wise enough to separate the "treasures" from the "trash".

Here is what irritates me about the net.  I just typed "Rio Grande Railroad" in Google, and got 451,000 sites.  Maybe a small handful are factual documentations based on years of research by someone with personal experiences with the railroad, presented in what the webmaster considers a better format.  The rest is the garbage mentioned above.   I feel about web sites as I do about opinions...they are just like "rearends", everybody has one.

I will be so glad when my research is complete enough to make rational decisions, so I can delete all the links from my favorites folder.

Well, just the ramblings of an old man, who has learned there is no shortcut to success, no instant gratification. 

Yampa Bob

[Beatthe9ers]

Just a couple of comments in mild defense of myself, not that I view the above as any sort of attack that requires response, but just for clarity.

I read your entire instructional post on Talgo Upgrades, thought it was terrific, have bookmarked it and will be referring to it once I get my supplies together and get to work.

My response in that thread, which I believe is the one you are referring to, does not suggest that a video would be better.  I was inquiring about the availability of video instruction on a variety of other topics and then wrote that a video would be an incredible 'compliment' to your written work.  I still feel that way.

I have a 4 year old boy at home and an 11 month old girl.  My wife and I both work.  My time to pursue my own interests is pretty much limited to between the hours of 9:30 and 11:00 at night, and my funds are such that I would like them to be spent efficiently.  If I break something, or suddenly realize that I need another supply that I hadn't thought of before, it might be another week before I am able to get back to the hobby store to pick up the item.

I don't want someone else to either think or do for me, but I do want to be able to benefit from others experience and knowledge, and I want to take advantage of all the resources available to me.  This website, and people like you, have provided a wealth of information, advice and inspiration, which I am deeply grateful for.

Parker

[Woody Elmore]

What's a book? There are sociologists out there that predict the demise of books and handwriting by the year 2050. There are a lot of schools where penmanship has taken a back seat to the internet and the all important sports program. Have you seen the new language created by text messaging? It's all abbreviations with no punctuation. Third graders are doing Power Point presentations with nary a book in sight.

My first RR book was O&W by Helmer. I now have about three dozen and would have more if I had the money at the time.

As for the internet, there is a book by Cliff Stoll called "Silicone Snake Oil" where he warns about misuse of the internet. Stoll is America's leading expert on Saturn (the planet not the car or Roman god.) He was sending messages by computer over telephone lines when Gerry Ford was president. His main complaint is that anyone can put up anything.

Look at all the websites there are denying the Holocaust in Europe. There are several new websites about the  government"conspiracy" behind 9/11. Wikipedia has been sued several times over false and even slanderous postings. Even pictures are not safe, thanks to Photoshop. Of course the NKVD was altering pictures with air brushes in the 1930s.

An internet Brittanica of trains would be a great idea but you'd eventually have an out of control monster.

I'll take my books at any time. Just recently a Bachmann posting about 60 cm gauge trains in WWI made me venture up to my attic to dig out the book, Railways to No Man's land which I bought years ago but only browsed through.

This has been an enjoyable thread but methinks there are too many words for a number of our posters!

[TonyD]

Oh! best be silent comrade Elmore... remember the 'readers' in Farenhiet 451? They had to live in abandoned Duetchse Bahn rolling stock... do you have your permit to possess and carry these books concealed? well until that is invesigated, there is a still the 500 mark fine for quoting heir Shakespeare.... it is spring, I shall thankfully revert to my other interests and obligations..... btw, the little O&W book is a good one huh? What a pathedic story, almost impossible to find even traces of the line anymore- anywhere. I've got my speeder parked on two short pieces of their rail from Hancock, and no, I do not have a permit to own used railway paraphanelia....

[Yampa Bob]

Parker
There was no personal attack intended, I was merely stating facts as I perceived them.   I might have confused the word 'compliment' to mean 'better'.  I spent an entire day writing and taking pictures, actually performing the "operation" along the way.  Being of a rather sensitive nature, I might have also confused your constructive comments as criticism.  I do remember asking myself "What more do they want?"

I know you appreciate the work I did, in fact it was your questions which inspired me to write the article.   

Frankly I don't always enjoy writing instructions, because I never want to give the impression that my way is the only way.  I can only write what works for me.  People have different ways of doing things, it is the end result that matters.

When I was starting out a year ago, I came to the forum and asked the same questions you did.  Finding no threads relating to my concerns, I had to learn the hard way, by experimenting.  First attempts at least worked, and through trial and error I developed what I felt was the easiest way for inexperienced modelers to achieve results.

I remember specifically asking about the relationship between bolster and floor heights.  The only suggestion I received was to just shim with Kadee washers until the coupler height was correct.  By using digital depth indicators on various cars and trucks, I came to the conclusion that the "magic" number is 3/16".  It may not be the perfect number because trucks vary, but one that is easy to remember.  I scratch built a chassis, and set the bolster height at 3/16" below the floor.  When the trucks, wheels and couplers were attached, the coupler height was almost perfect. 

In crafting or modeling, it helps to have some "constant" in mind to at least get in the ballpark, rather than trial and error. 

Well, the topic is "books".  I have 60 years of modeling experience that will one day be lost.  Crafting is crafting, trains is just another medium, the only difference is now I work with styrene instead of balsa.  I don't have the time or resources to write a book, and with today's mindset anyone reading such a book would probably say "this guy is full of it".   I have no notoriety to achieve, no legacy to leave, so I will leave the book writing to others. 

Bob  

[Beatthe9ers]

Well, if you ever change your mind and do write one, you can sign me up for a copy.  If you want to include a dvd with it too, that would be awesome.   

It's interesting that this entire topic came up as I was going to ask if there was a beginner level book that is considered sort of the 'gold standard' of introductions to the hobby.  I'm getting the feeling that such an animal may not exist, or at least that there are many options to choose from.  I'm interested in more of a 'how to' book regarding construction, track laying and wiring rather than a history of railroads or detailed analysis of different eras of locomotives.

Any suggestions?

[SteamGene]

Atlas publishes a bunch of basic books:
layouts
benchwork
electrical
scenery
structures

You buy what you need when you need it. 
Gene

[Redtail67]

As one new to modeling HO railroads, I think that the internet provides many excellent sites that have a wealth of information concerning all aspects of the hobby.

I would find books that address any specific part of modeling HO to be invaluble assets.

One of the best resources for me has been Forums such as this as you are able to pose questions and get fast answers from those that are in some cases real experts in the hobby. If nothing else forums provide ideas and different viewpoints of how to accomplish whatever you want as well as spark my brain into thinking of things I never would have.

I believe that all assets have a place and they all have a value to the model railroad builder.

Redtail67

[Jim Banner]

...  methinks there are too many words for a number of our posters!

Sadly, I have to agree.

[Guilford Guy]

...  methinks there are too many words for a number of our posters!

Sadly, I have to agree.

Oops...

[Yampa Bob]

When I began to be interested in railroads I went to a local hobby shop and asked for their best beginner book.  All their books were sealed in plastic to keep people from browsing and soiling them I suppose.

The dealer recommended, and I bought a book written by Paul Mallory. When I got home and glanced through it I discovered it was way over my head. I later asked for a  refund and was refused. 

I agree with Gene to buy what you need when you need it.  I might add, get the right level of book for where you are at.  People don't usually buy "college level" books when they are in the 1st grade.  That happened to me, and I threw the book away as there was nothing I could use.   $10 wasted.

I noticed that Atlas has 3 different books on "wiring", since it is not an overly complicated subject, why didn't they condense it into one book?  Different authors, different methods and views?  I would like to have one book, the best book on the subject of wiring, even an "old dog" can learn new tricks.  Kalmbach also has one, but as usual, their pricing is a bit high for my wallet.

I am becoming a Carstens fan, if I were to subscribe to one magazine, it would be Model Railroad Craftsman as it focuses more on construction.  My son gave me some back issues and I got a lot of good ideas from them.  The glamour mags don't interest me in the least.  I want to learn how to better manage my layout, not some world record monster costing six figures.   

Bob

[Yampa Bob]

Parker
Once again you have inspired, well actually refreshed my mind.  About 6 months ago I called Atlas, and had a very nice visit with a young woman in customer service.  We hit if off right away.  (When I call, I ask the ladies how they are, how's the weather, etc) One advantage of being 69 is I can tease the ladies and get away with it. It kinda backfired once when a lady asked me if I was married. LOL.

Anyway, she sent me the "Atlas Library" version 1 on CD Rom.  I tossed it into the drawer and forgot all about it until just now.  Here's some of the contents:

Beginner's guide to HO railroading, HO layout for every space, 54 fantastic layout plans, The complete Atlas wiring book, Atlas parts catalog, and Atlas products catalog.

20 megabytes of information. They may have a later version out.  Well, it seems I have some more homework to do. 

By the way, you will probably have to pay for your CD.  LOL

Oops, just checked the Atlas site, the CD is no longer listed. You might give them a call anyway...1 800 872 2521

Bob

[Woody Elmore]

TonyD: I still have my Helmer book with the very sought after system map that is often missing from used copies. I think that there is still an O&W station in downtown Oswego (if Oswego has a downtown.) It had been a restaurant years ago. I haven't been up there in ages.

The tunnel is still there, up around Liberty, and there is a small O&W museum which I never got to visit - Only got as far up Route 17 as Monticello.

It is sad that railroad like the O&W could just vanish off the face of the earth.

As for my books, I have a permit to read them at home. It doesn't allow me to carry them outside unless they are in an appropriate container. By the way, if you had to memorize one book, what would it be?