15" radius and a Spectrum 4-4-0

[sparkyjay31]

Have any of you had any luck witha  4-4-0 and 15" radius track?  My sons layout, due to my limited layout size, has 15" radius corners.  Now he already has an IHC 4-6-2 that has no problem with the 15" track.  It may look a bit funny, but it works and he loves it!

I've heard of front truck derailing issues with the 4-4-0?!

[Yampa Bob]

If it seems pretty quiet around here, it's because everyone is waiting for midnight.

Bob

[sparkyjay31]

If it seems pretty quiet around here, it's because everyone is waiting for midnight.

Bob

Yeah, unfortunately this is no April fools joke.

[Bill Baker]

Sparky,

Since no one has ventured an answer to your question, I'll take a stab at it.  I do not have a Spectrum 4-4-0, but I do have two 4-6-0s.  I have a curved section of track which enters my yards which I used flex track.  I would guess that part of the curve is slightly less than 15inches in radius. My ten wheelers do not have a problem negotiating this curve.  However my 2-8-0's do derail at times.  In looking at pictures of the Spectrum 4-4-0 and 4-6-0 it appears the 4-6-0 has a slightly longer wheel base. Based on this, I would not think your 15" radii would have any problems.

As far as your leading trucks are concerned, one of my 4-6-0s has a tendency to lift up and derail....the other one runs fine.  On the one, the tender harness has a tendency to lift up the locomotive causing the lead trucks to leave the track.  You can adjust this by pulling more wiring from the tender which allows more flexibility between the engine and tender.  Also, you can slightly bend the leaf spring to apply more pressure to the trucks, but be very careful in doing this and make small adjustments at a time.  I ruined one leaf spring, but ordered another from the Bachmann parts department.

As I said, I don't have a 4-4-0, so if anyone else who does have one gives a different answer, I'll yield to their opinion.

Good luck, Bill

[Yampa Bob]

Hi Sparky
When I had problems with a pilot truck derailing, I was advised to remove the spring and add weight to the truck.  That method helped but still had an occasional derail.

I finally discovered the problem was caused by excessive length of the flangeway in a turnout, where the derail always occurred.

The frog point should be sharp and extend as far into the wingrails crotch as possible, otherwise there will be a long space where the wheel is not supported either on the  wing rail or the frog, a "drop zone" if you will.  This was audibly detected by a "bam bam" sound as the loco drive wheels, and wheels of freight cars,  dropped and rebounded in and out of the space.  This was further confirmed by using a transparent "test car".  Replacing the turnout with a better one solved all problems, but I left the spring out anyway.

The space on the original turnout was .252" whereas the space of the new one was only .103".  If the frog is blunt or round, and the space allows the wheels to drop, you can expect derails.  Premature flaring of a wing rail can also make the space longer. 

There is a picture on the NMRA site showing the space, I had a thread showing how the problem is corrected on real turnouts, but I am in the process of updating it due to some vague content.  I will have it up again soon for interested members.

Bob

[Johnson Bar Jeff]

I haven't attempted to run my Spectrum 4-4-0 on a 15-inch radious curve, and I don't have a Spectrum ten-wheeler. However, for what it's worth in general knowledge, my Mantua "General" 4-4-0s run fine on a 15-inch radius, and don't look too bad doing it.  On the other hand, my Mantua ten-wheelers can barely get around the curve and are very unhappy about it. My Rivarossi 4-4-0s will operate on a 15-inch radius, but with a lot of overhang at the pilot.

Length of driving wheelbase seems to be key, and also perhaps whether all drivers are flanged or some are flangeless.

[the Bach-man]

Dear Sparky,
The loco to tender wires might prove a problem on 15" radius.
Perfect trackwork would seem a must.
Have fun!
the Bach-man

[Bill Baker]

To Yampa Bob:

Bob, how did you go about adding weight to the lead trucks and what did you use?  I read on another thread a long time ago that one of our members suggested this.  When one of my 4-6-0s was waiting for its replacement spring leaf, I tried to run it, but it was worse in derailing then before.  There isn't much room from the top of the truck to the bottom frame of the engine.

Bill