Switch shorting out on #4

[hotrainlover]

Dear Board,
Now I know why I should have used other switches.....
I have an #4 Customline switch that has been cleaned to the point that it shorts out now!  It seems that the plastic between the frog points have dimminished .  The wheels make contact at the points and cause the DCC system to short.  This happens EVERY time an engine crosses the switch, while traveling along the main.  It does not short when the switch is thrown, and the engine diverges to the sideing!???  I think the cause is from the constant "Pad" on my cleaning boxcar.  I think I need to block the "Smallest" rail in the frog point,...  but do not really know how...

I have ordered a #6 turnout to replace it, but I cannot run any trains on the main until then....   
Any suggestion would be helpful!!

Thanks,
Hotrainlover

[Yampa Bob]

HO
Recently the #4, as well as all the other turnouts, have been upgraded to longer and sharper points, with a rivetless design. 

Don't accept anything other than the new version.  Some sources are still sending out the older versions.  If you have any doubts, let me know and I'll write  you about it.

Bob

[Jim Banner]

I can think of at least four reasons why you might be having trouble.

(1) Shorting across the gap by something in the wiring, possibly in the wiring inside the turnout itself.  Soltuion - remove turnout and check with an ohmeter.

(2) Shorting across the gap by rail expansion, either in the turnout or external to it, squashing the plastic in the gap.  Solution - replace turnout and make sure you leave room for track expansion.

(3) Metal/carbon smear across the gap from the cleaning pads.  Solution - clean off smear.

(4) Worn plastic insulation in the gap allowing wheels to drop in between the ends of the separated rails and shorting rail to rail.  This is shown in the drawing below, where a good insulated gap is shown at left and a worn one at right.  Solution - built up worn plastic with epoxy and file/sand smooth.



You might also consider the possibility that the turnout has gone out of gauge.  Check it with an NMRA track and wheel gauge to be sure it is okay.  It might only require a minor adjustment to set thing right.

[Yampa Bob]

Jim
Thanks for the picture, added it to my collection.

Bob

[Guilford Guy]

The guardrails are still in place yes?

[hotrainlover]

GG,
Yes the guard rail is still in place.  I have checked the switch with the NMRA gauge, and all seems gapped correctly. 

Bob,  I will check into the "New" ones just in case I need to use one for space considerations...

Jim, yes I think it is that the plastic has worn down that covers the points where they separate the two opposing rails.  What kind of Epoxy would work in this instance?  Are there any you have used? What brands are better for these applications?  Will this "FIX" last for a couple of weeks?

I WILL be replacing the turnout as soon as my order arrives...  I do not have a LHS close...

Dear ALL,
Thanks for the info on this.  My layout has always ran really well...   I do have several Engines that DO NOT like this turnout, anyway.  I was being lazy for a while not wanting to replace all the #4 switches.... 
It is possible that there was a problem before while I used DC.  The New DCC system IS teaching me new things ...

[Jim Banner]

Five minute epoxy should do it, but leave it over night to harden before filing it.  For a short term fix like a couple of weeks, a bit of Scotch tape or some nail polish over the offending insulator is probably enough.  In either case, be sure to clean the oil/grease off first.  Alcohol, either isopropyl or methanol and a Q-tip should do it.

[hotrainlover]

Jim,
Thanks for the help!

Hotrainlover