Spectrum 2-8-0 motor - question for the Bachmann

[Yampa Bob]

New Bachmann Connie 2-8-0s are currently selling for $114.00 for the UP, $117 for the others.

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXJWY1&P=SM

I ordered 2 more for spares. Better get'em while they're hot. They might be 2007 models but who cares?

Bob

[Pacific Northern]

New Bachmann Connie 2-8-0s are currently selling for $114.00 for the UP, $117 for the others.

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXJWY1&P=SM

I ordered 2 more for spares. Better get'em while they're hot. They might be 2007 models but who cares?

Bob

For a better price check MB Klien Just less than $80.00

http://www.modeltrainstuff.com/category_s/224.htm

[Yampa Bob]

Yup, it's just I get free shipping with my membership, and a 30 day no hassle guarantee directly from Tower.  That is worth the extra money for me.

If something is defective, they even send me a prepaid UPS label, and pay the shipping to send the replacement to me.  Even if I just change my mind, they will give me a refund within the 30 days.

I won't buy from any vendor that requires out of the box defects to be sent to the factory. 

Bob

[Pacific Northern]

Yup, it's just I get free shipping with my membership, and a 30 day no hassle guarantee directly from Tower.  That is worth the extra money for me.

If something is defective, they even send me a prepaid UPS label, and pay the shipping to send the replacement to me.  Even if I just change my mind, they will give me a refund within the 30 days.

I won't buy from any vendor that requires out of the box defects to be sent to the factory. 

Bob

Well I guess I know the price of peace of mind for me at least.

[Yampa Bob]

Well, I figure the shipping gets the price up to $90, if something is wrong that's another $10.  Some stores charge a 15% restocking fee if you return it, in addition to the return shipping.

Mostly, 37 years of satisfaction with a company.   If the stores selling for $80 had the same guarantee it would be tempting.

Tne 2008 catalog still lists the 2-8-0 as having a 5 pole motor.  Since all my Connies are less than a year old, I assume they all have the 3 pole.  They seem pretty smooth and have plenty of power, of course I have no means of comparison.  I do wonder why they haven't updated the catalog but it is not a big concern to me.

The greatest peace of mind is knowing Bachmann stands behind their locos regardless of age. 

Bob

[modlerbob]

See other thread on flywheels.  There is no way a 3 pole motor can have better low end high torque performance than a 5 pole motor.  And I challenge anybody to provide verified evidence that they can.  A three pole motor is great for jack rabbit starts and high rpm that is why they are in slot cars.  Iwouldn't have one in any of my locomotives.

[Atlantic Central]

One, I've never paid more than $80.00 for a Bachmann 2-8-0, even new ones with DCC.

Two, without knowing all the specs of a motor, arguing 3 pole vs 5 pole is silly. Sure, for our purpose in model trains, with all other design features being equal, 5 pole is better than 3. BUT, a very well designed, skewed armature 3 pole can easily perform as well or better than "average" 5 pole.

I have both old and new 2-8-0's, the new ones with the three pole motors seem to run a bit smoother, especially at slow speeds than the old ones. So, based on results, not hype, the new three pole might well be as good or better than the old five pole.

Bachmann's use of the belt drive and the gear ratio in question plays a role here. The torque curve of the new motor may be better suited to this application than the old motor, no matter how many poles it was.

As I said above, it's results, not theory or hype that interest me. Having desgined and built HiFi speakers, designed and installed hydronic heating, designed and installed process machinery controls, sooped up hot rod engines, and built model trains for 30 years, I am more impressed with results than fancy specs.

Sheldon

[Pacific Northern]

One, I've never paid more than $80.00 for a Bachmann 2-8-0, even new ones with DCC.

Two, without knowing all the specs of a motor, arguing 3 pole vs 5 pole is silly. Sure, for our purpose in model trains, with all other design features being equal, 5 pole is better than 3. BUT, a very well designed, skewed armature 3 pole can easily perform as well or better than "average" 5 pole.

I have both old and new 2-8-0's, the new ones with the three pole motors seem to run a bit smoother, especially at slow speeds than the old ones. So, based on results, not hype, the new three pole might well be as good or better than the old five pole.

Bachmann's use of the belt drive and the gear ratio in question plays a role here. The torque curve of the new motor may be better suited to this application than the old motor, no matter how many poles it was.

As I said above, it's results, not theory or hype that interest me. Having desgined and built HiFi speakers, designed and installed hydronic heating, designed and installed process machinery controls, sooped up hot rod engines, and built model trains for 30 years, I am more impressed with results than fancy specs.

Sheldon

Sheldon

Finally comments and a comparison from someone who has the Spectrum 2-8-0's with both motors.  I agree that it is the results that matter.

[Atlantic Central]

drhone,

It was actually because of this thread that I took the decoders out of two new 2-8-0's that I recently purchased (I don't use DCC) and compaired their performance to several of my older ones.

The difference is slight but the new ones seem to start smoother and are smoother at their slowest speed, which seems to be about the same, for both old and new.

Modelerbob can rant all he wants, but they run great in my opinion. Three pole, five pole, it matters not.

Sheldon

[Pacific Northern]

Sheldon

Your review of the two motors certainly supports the Bach Man's comments that the 3 pole were of comparable specs to the new 5 pole.

I will now order another Spectrum,  just to have available. There certainly are a lot of 2-8-0's and 2-10-0's currently available at very low prices at the moment.

[modlerbob]

Sheldon, I didn't intend for my post to appear as a rant and I apologise to those who took offence.  I've been associated with model trains and slot cars for 40 years and have never seen a 3 pole motor that could start at very low rpm and maintain it with a load, ie. creeping.  If you say it's so then I'm glad Bachmann has improved their motor technology as I own and will continue to purchase Bachmann products.  My next purchase will be a 2-8-4 Berk and I will be interested in finding out what motor it has.