tender with motor

[hindmarch]

Hi i need info if there is a coal tender available from the US side with motor, i have 2  4-6.2 east german steam loco,s ,the locos are from 1960? but are in as new condition only the motors in the tenders are burnt out and it is not possible to get spares or to repair, any HO coal tender would  help to save these old loco,s, i have 2 * 2-10-0 BR52 loco,s from 1955 which have never been run,i have converted these  to digital there is plenty room as these have a long oil tender,they run excellent but are a bit noisy.Regards Bryan

[SteamGene]

Why not just get new motors?
Gene

[ta152h0]

i have a John Bull that has the motor in the tender.

[richG]

Hi i need info if there is a coal tender available from the US side with motor, i have 2  4-6.2 east german steam loco,s ,the locos are from 1960? but are in as new condition only the motors in the tenders are burnt out and it is not possible to get spares or to repair, any HO coal tender would  help to save these old loco,s, i have 2 * 2-10-0 BR52 loco,s from 1955 which have never been run,i have converted these  to digital there is plenty room as these have a long oil tender,they run excellent but are a bit noisy.Regards Bryan

Hello Bryan

Since the motors are not available anymore, you might consider NWSL Flea unit.
http://www.nwsl.com/
http://www.nwsl.com/Catalog/pg017-cat4-01-v0605.pdf
You might also consider a two truck diesel about the same sizes as the tender. No doubt you will have to do some mechanical work.
I am not familiar of any tenders with motor and gears in the tender though I know some where sold at one time.
You might also post the question at Trains.com There are many people from around the world in the forums.
http://www.trains.com/trc/CS/forums/
Join the Model Railroader General Discussion group.

Cheerss

Rich

[Yampa Bob]

Bryan
Please check my thread "Chopped Goat" in this section.  A friend and I recently made some powered cars, such as canteens and tenders, using the Bachmann GE 70 ton DCC chassis.   It's more economical than the NWSL Flea and ready to run with just a few body alterations. 

You may have to shorten or stretch the tender to make it fit, but the GE is a very versatile unit.  If you need help modifying the tender, let me know and I will send instructions.   The mod requires a special adapter plate, I have instructions for that also, very simple and cheap to build.  . 

Bob

[Guilford Guy]

While the 70 Tonner is a cheap alternative, it is a horrible puller, and very loud. My friend can only take 2 cars up a 4% grade with it, and only 5 about 5 cars before the wheels start slipping, when used in yard work. I'd use NWSL trucks, I know there is a company which makes passenger car trucks that are powered, and I'm sure these can be kitbashed with new sideframes.
http://www.thecoachyard.com/Pages/Catalog.lasso?CatalogDisplay=S

[Yampa Bob]

GG

I have 4 Bachmann 70s. They are very quiet and can pull 15 cars with ease.  On the main with a loco up front, and the 70 used behind or as a powered canteen behind the tender, the  combination can pull 30 cars up a 3% grade without slipping wheels.

In the yard by itself, it will pull 10 to 15 cars without slipping.  They are powerful pullers for their small size.  If you friend's loco is slipping its wheels, he needs to clean the track/wheels and make sure the weight is intact.

They are not intended to pull cars up a 4% grade by themselves,  however I set up a 3% grade and pulled 5 cars to the top.  All needed was one ounce extra weight.

Everyone I have talked to that uses them as intended has had praises for them.  During the Christmas season, the 70 was the best seller on Ebay.

I speak from actual experiences.  Have you personally used the NWSL Flea units? To get 8 wheel drive would cost about $120.00.  I can buy 3 -70s for that, DCC equipped and ready to roll. 

Bob

[kevin2083]

I have a DCC 70t, and I will have to side with GG about the noise. Pulling power is OK for me since I don't usually run trains longer than 6 cars. The best solution I have found for the noisy loco is to bring a radio in the train room.

[Yampa Bob]

Kevin
It's not a matter of "siding" with anyone since I am only stating facts relating to my locos. If they are so noisy you have to play a radio, and won't pull at least 15 cars, they should be returned to Bachmann as defective.

The gear reduction of the 70, prototypical of a switcher for power, causes a very slight whining noise, just like a standard transmission in a vehicle the sound is normal.  It is not designed for high speed main, although  I did clock mine at 70 mph pulling 20 cars on a flat track.

Two defective locomotives out of the thousands being used is a very low percentage.

BTW, the brass worm gears were dry when received.  A little Bachmann light grease made the gear lash barely audible.

Bob

[hotrainlover]

Bob,
Could you send me the instructions for the plate on the 70 ton switcher?
I have a great idea for a kit bash...  and I think this will be the solution!

Thanks,

hotrainlover

[Guilford Guy]

I just don't think the 70 tonner is the best choice for powering a tender. A P2k SW9 may work, but I'd really recommend getting powered trucks from "The Coach Yard." The trucks are fully wired, and once installed will run without problems. Each truck include a vertical can motor. The 70 tonners aren't great pullers, dirty track rarely causes wheel slip. The loco has not been modified, and while they are good, and I would buy if I had the money, they are not suited for the task of push a large, heavy German steamer, and pull a train of "wagons" at the same time.

[Guilford Guy]

Actually, if you were to buy an Atlas S4 chassis, and kitbash the old tender sideframes onto the atlas trucks, you could have a fulll functional loco. My S4 pulled 30 2 bays on the club's modular set up with ease, at track speed, while pushing an Athearn Dummy. The S4 is an excellent runner, and with its metal frame, is a great puller. The slow speed operation is great, and lenz makes a decoder for it.

[Yampa Bob]

I have made tests with several powered trucks, including the P2K, and I found the GE 70 to perform the best, not only in power but in versatility, economy and ease of implementing.  Since most tenders have less than 5/8" inside vertical clearance, and any adapter must extend down to the bolster, a vertical can motor won't fit.   

How can you say they are not good pullers, when my tests have proved to the contrary?  You can't make a positive conclusion based on a couple of units that may either be defective, or not set up properly for the application. I guess it is a matter of credibility, conclusive tests versus opinion. 

You have to consider the feasibility of adapting shells to the powered chassis.  There are several possibilities, but it is the versatility that makes the GE a clear winner in my book. 

Of course you have to add extra weight.  For a 70 ton locomotive, the HO scale weight is less than 4 ounces, hardly adequate for traction.  Adding another 2 -3 ounces will provide the traction, and will not overwork the motor even pulling 15 cars. Remember this is a helper application.

With the GE, you don't have to reinvent the wheel, simply modify the shell length and it's ready to roll, DCC equipped.

Bob

[Guilford Guy]

The 70 tonner is definitely not a suitable loco for an old heavy German Steamer. The best choice would be trucks from the Coach Yard, or an atlas S4 chassis.

[Yampa Bob]

Why don't you buy the ones you suggest, build the tender and make tests.  Again, you are stating opinions, not conclusive documentation.  Your proposal may work just fine, but as yet it is unproven.

I now have several modelers using the 70 as a base for assorted projects, and the results are entirely favorable.

Yampa Bob