Passenger Brake Operation

[Guilford Guy]

On MBTA's Pullman, Bombardier, MBB, and Kawasaki commuter cars, there is a handle at each end of the car. According to one of the conductors I know, they've only had to use them in a few instances, for example when a guy jumped off the train after it left the station, etc. I agree, passengers rarely have a good reason to pull it, thus it is rarely used. I've heard cases on MBTA, where once it is pulled it doesn't want to reset, leaving a train dead on the system... Of course, our locomotives are haunted, thus on a cab ride one time, 1131 dumped the air on its own when leaving hastings...

[r.cprmier]

Tony;
Why would you want to dump air in only one car?  I would think that a signal to the engineer would be much better, as the whole train system could be dumped/controlled by him, preventing things like flattening wheels, etc.

RIch

PS:  Lucy's and Ricky's stunts were just that:  Stunts.  They are staged for effect.  Not neccessarily prototypically correct in any setting!  Ever watch a cartoon where the engine has a flat tire?...

RIch

[SteamGene]

Rich,
I'm not sure Chug is old enough to join the Boy Scouts.  I'm not sure the Army could use him in anything other than a 36K.
Gene

[Mike]

For what it is worth, you couldn't "dump the air in just one car" unless you first blanked the angle cocks on both ends of the car. As soon as the air is dropped on any car (or engine, for that matter) all brakes apply ...that is, all brakes that are part of the continuously supplied system (ending ,of course, at the first blanked angle cock). And you can't get the air to come back up and the brakes to release until it's reset at the control stand of the controlling locomotive and enough air has been pumped back to release the affected brakes.- Mike

[Johnson Bar Jeff]

Ever watch a cartoon where the engine has a flat tire?...

Reminds me of a listing I recently saw on eBay that referred to the brake wheel on a flat car as "the steering wheel."

I always wondered how they kept those things on the tracks. ...   

[Redtail67]

I want to try to correct a misunderstanding about the "CORD" in passenger equipment and the "EMERGENCY BRAKE VALVE" in the same cars.

1. The over head cord is a communication whistle ussed to send wiste signals directy to the cab of the controlling locomotive in passenger service.
is was to provide a means for the Conductor to tll the Engineer to "STOP" "PROCEEED" "STOP AT NEXT STATION" bring attention to upcoming "MEET AT NEXT STATION" and so on. Remember this device was implemented long before "RADIO" and is still in use today. However, the current Operating rules permit the use of RADIO in place of the communicating whistle.

This whistle is located on the floor along in front of the engineer with the ATS  and ATC whistles.

2. The "EMERGENCY BRAKE VALVE" is FRA Requirement on all Locomotives Passenger Cars and Cabooses. It provides all crew members as well as the general public on passenger trains a direct means of stopping the train. If that valve is used all cars and locomotives will apply their air brakes into emegerncy postion and stiop the train.

I feel there was confusion about what each one was and what they did.

Redtail67

[Guilford Guy]

Today along with the cord, conductors use a button system. Next to the traps on most modern pullman/bombardier commuter cars, there is a little notch with a button. This sends a signal to a buzzer/bell like object in the cab. Pressing twice is the signal for "Okay to go" although most prefer to use the radio.

[taz-of-boyds]

Our MARC (MAryalnd Rail Commuter) cars I ride to work all the time all have cranks in the vestibule, and a little red handle hanging from a little cord at the ends of the cars.  I have often thought of mentioning something to the conductor applying the brake at the end of the trip that I was wondering what someone meant about the old crank at the end of the car....

I am happy to say I have not been on a train when the brakes have been put on full.

Charles

[Guilford Guy]

I've been on a cab ride (well cab car) when the train went into emergency. Some kids had put an old x-mas tree across the tracks. Its often better to be safe rather than sorry, when some large brown object is stretched across the track. (kinda looked like a deer until we got closer) The train stopped surprisingly quickly(4 or 5 commuter car lengths from 60mph), then came the arduous task of assisting the conductor in wrenching the remains of the tree from beneath the MU cables where it had caught.

[Redtail67]

The "CRANKS" you refer to or hand brakes all cars freight and passenger as well as locomotives are required to be equipped with them. In some cases it may be a wheel, they come in many shapes and sizes.

They are designed to be used mainly to hold cars or units stationary after being left on a track. Units were never supposed to be "kicked" anywhere and stopped by the use of the hand brake, many have been.

Freight cars being switched and moving on their own momentum are stopped by the use of hand brakes every day of the year.

However, under emergency conditions they could be used to stop a rolling car or unit. that has started rolling on its own. They have been used just for that purpose many thousands of times.

The hand brake or brakes may not stop something real heavy that is moving if on a real steep grade. In other words the tonnage might have overpowered the available braking power of the cars or equipment, whether it is the air brakes or the mechanical brakes, on the grade.

That is often referred to as a runaway.

So now there are three distinctly different things that have refferred to in this thread.

1. The Communication Whistle.
2. The Emergency Brake Valve.
3. The Hand Operated Brake.

Redtail67

[Yampa Bob]

Kadee has what they call delayed action decoupling, so you can "kick" cars into a siding.  That didn't seem prototypical to me.  Looks good for the movies I guess.

I always wondered what happens if the train breaks in the middle and there is no locomotive at the rear, especially pulling a grade. I imagine the breaking away of the mu hoses apply the brakes, but what about the old days of steam?

Just hope the brakeman in the caboose isn't taking a nap?



Bob   

[rogertra]

Bob.

Airbrakes, for the purposes of this discussion and without getting too technical, are fully automatic.  If a train brakes in two, even in steam days, both halves of the train go into "emergency" and come to a stop.

Trains, for the purposes of this discussion and without getting too technical, do not run  away down hill in a break in two.

[TonyD]

It is getting old fashion now Yamba Bob, but around here the kadee style pushing while uncoupled was common, and really cool when the ALCO switchers were still around, a ton of black smoke every few minutes...could be still done (legally?) atleast with some loads that aren't easily damaged or dislodged, and it gets dangerous for the brakeman to have to trot along side to lift the pin, the old timers alway said to keep several car lengths away when crossing the tracks, because a switcher could be doing a 'flying shove' of a couple cars into the string you are at the other end of, and like the little desk art thing with the swinging silver balls, the string of cars could roll back the same distance... something about this old guy with an apple and fig cookies, I forgot, but 'is/can be handy for layouts when you have one magnetic uncoupler, but a choice of spurs to spot a car on, you switcher can place it there, or couple onto other cars, yet back away alone...but as models shoving a couple cars onto a sting in a yard...rarely comes off looking realistic. Maybe some dcc geek can come up with a rummbling thump sound..... yes as any airline, or vaccuum line abroad, part company- boths ends of the train stop, all cars with equal pressure....before that( 1885-1900), there was a brakeman every passenger car, or 'walking around up there, jumping between cartops! every few freight cars, and the caboose, or 'brake van' in some places, was full of scrap iron, lead waste, concrete, rocks, as dead weight when the wheels were locked. Llike you guys with the HO flats, out of the way, out of sight.  Engineers had whistle signals for just having these guys apply 'some' braking... or like in the old war movies, European 4wheel freights had a brakeman in a cabin every few cars till payscales went up after the war.... i'm sure those guys bid on better jobs anyway....one of the original ideas of having a caboose/brakevan was just the idea of having a human being at the far end of something gone very wrong...sounds like a good idea to me...  is this now all 'history? am I THAT old already?'

[Redtail67]

Kicking of cars in switching operations is as common as dirt. Happens everyday in every yard in America. However, with the new found religion of the rail industry shoving everything to and from a "joint" or coupling is becoming more the norm.

The brakeman up on top was the order of the day as late as 1966-1967. Shortly after I hired out the Railroads starterd removing the running boards on top of all cars and outlawed the use of brake clubs. Many, very many,  trainmen lost their lives walking the tops of cars on moving trains.

The trainmen would by whistle signals from the engineer apply or release hand brakes on both freight and passenger trains. This was more common before the wide spread application of dynamic brakes on locomotives and well as vast improvements in the air brake systems in use on trains.

Before the dynamic brake, ie STEAM, it really took a very skilled engineer to bring any train down the mountains or any extended grade. Skill as well as guts.

They had no dynamic brake and only one air compressor, it can not be overstated just how good an Engineer had to be to run under those conditions. There was absolutely no room for error on his part.

Deisels brought dynamic brakes and multiple units with an air compressor on each, they even had air brake repeater cars, what a godsend. The design improvements in air brake equipment on cars and locomotives greatly improved overall train operational safety.

Just in case you do not know trains in the early days had no air brakes on the cars and the very first designs were of a so called straight air system witch was very unsafe and provided mediocre brakeing at best. I ran a alco RS1 equipped with the 14el brake valve. The independent brake was a straight air type and operated in the same fashion as the automatic brake for the train. That valve was a SREAM Era hold over modified to operate with the more advanced AB freight car valves. The railroads modernized most deisels in the 1950 1960 to 24 rl and the the 26 which were both very good brake valves and much more safe that anything built before.

I just read an ad for ATSF in an old newspaper that was bragging wanting passengers to take the ATSF "..our trains have "AIR BRAKES" was their cry to appeal to the traveling public.

Deaths from train wrecks were numerous and very common place in the early 1900's which prompted Congress to take action requireing Air Brakes hand brakes and a whole basket full of laws and regulations to bring about better safety standards.

[Guilford Guy]

DMIR uses straight air on their ore trains. The way I understand it, after the brakes are applied, with straight air you can bleed off the brakes somewhat? Is there any advantage to using straight air on these heavy pellet trains?