non-train electrical question made to conform to railroading

[SteamGene]

For you guys who really know electricity.  An answer to this question may save me time to work on my layout and perhaps save an animal's life.  One of our boxers, the female, can climb our chainlink fence.   She lived for several months two doors down and likes to return for a visit.  We have a wireless fence as well, but she'll endure the shock from the one wire in order to get over the fence.  The wire leaves the control box, circles the yard and returns to the other terminal on the control box.   What I'm thinking of is to put a "passing siding" to the wire.  That is take some of the left over wire, strip insulation, attach the wire to the "fence," run it along the fence she goes over at the top, and then bring it back to the "fence" at the end of the fence she climbs. 
Will this work or will I create a short? 
Gene

[Atlantic Central]

Gene,

I'm not a dog expert, in fact I've never owned one, but from what I understand that will not work. The shock your dog feels comes from the colar, the wire in the ground simply uses a radio wave field to tell the colar when (at what place in the yard) to shock the dog.

Sheldon

[SteamGene]

Sheldon, I know that.  What I'm trying to do is to raise the field so that the entire fence is covered.  the wire acts as a aerial to send a signal to the collar.  We have to keep the field small because one of the other dogs is super sensitive to it.  There would be no problem were it the other way around. 
So my question goes back to - would this "double ended spur" create an electrical short?
BTW, how can you have a pick-up, a gun rack, a gun for the gun rack, and no hound dog?   
Gene

[Atlantic Central]

Gene,

OK now I get it, and, I still don't think it will work. Radio antennas place a load on the transmitter, changing that load to that degree may over load the transmitter.

Do the instructuctions of the wireless fence indicate a maximum run of wire? That would possibly indicate a maximum "load" for the transmitter.

As to the dog ownership thing, you see its like this, dogs are like children who never grow up. I know for some of you that is a great thing, but personally the one thing I learned from having three kids and three step kids is that I am not really a kid person, or a dog person. I accept this short coming of my personality.

Maybe it was reinforced as a child all those times I was chased on my bike (and bitten on occassion) or maybe its just the way I am. I don't wish ill on any animal, but I don't have any need to be around them either. In fact I quite dislike the smell, hair, chores, etc, etc, of pet ownership. Dogs are messy, I don't like messy, and I prefer not to be responsible for anyone elses toilet habits.

We should all know and accept who we are, I'm not a pet person and I prefer children in small doses. I like quiet, order, cleanliness - and after six children I intend to have it.

Sheldon

[SteamGene]

The invisible fence comes with 500 feet of wiring - very fine gauge - 18/20, something like that.  I have at least 100 feet not used.. 
And yes, dogs are like kids, but we've always had them, both for good and for ill.  This is not to say we planned on three boxers - we didn't.  Especially three under one year old!  The back yard has a striking resemblance to Verdun in 1916 if I strung some barbed wire all over the place.
Gene

[Stephen D. Richards]

Gene I believe Sheldon is correct.  I'm not an expert but I have had a good bit of experience in setting up IDS systems that use wire and wireless.  Try running the line above ground through the fence.  This will increase the range but may also affect the more sensitive dogs!  You could also change the wavelength, but that would mean an extensive change to transitter as well.   Hmmm....maybe bigger fence!   lol    Stephen

[SteamGene]

Right now the wire runs through the middle of the fence.  That takes care of digging under.  But especially when she hears kids she runs up, jumps about half way and then uses her paws to walk/climb over the fence.  That's why I think another wire at the top of the fence might prevent her making that climb.
We are going to get new fence of some sort - the chain link is more than 30 years old and really needs replacement.   I'm trying to find a quick fence to get her off the chain. 
Which comes back to the electrical question.  Will making a "passing siding" on an electrical wire short out the system?
Gene

[Yampa Bob]

Gene
My only experience with using shocks to control animals is with electric fence to keep livestock where they belong.  Of course cows are stupid. Once they get zapped they take a wide bearth along the fence.

Dogs are very smart, just like kids.  Once they realize it's a quick jolt crossing the barrier they will just take it and go.   I believe they have higher intensity collars for stubborn critters, have only used collars to field train cattle dogs.   Buy or rent the strongest one,  then sit out of sight with the transmitter in hand.  Every time he hits the fence, zap him.   That's all  I know.  Yeah I know, it sounds  inhumane. The SPCA has been on our case for years.

Sheldon
I raised 4 kids, outlived my first wife.  My present wife, younger than I, doesn't want kids.  I sent all the kids out the door at 18 with the message "visit all you want  but you ain't moving back in"  Today I have 4 grandchildren and 1 great granchild in the hopper.  Spoil them rotten then send them home.  You know what they call it when your kids have kids?   PAYBACK!!!

We live sorta like hermits on the ranch now, but still have our Border Collie.  16 years old, arthritis and can't stand the cold,  But tell her  "go find your ball" and she acts like a  puppy.

Bob

[fieromike]

Right now the wire runs through the middle of the fence.  That takes care of digging under.  But especially when she hears kids she runs up, jumps about half way and then uses her paws to walk/climb over the fence.  That's why I think another wire at the top of the fence might prevent her making that climb.
We are going to get new fence of some sort - the chain link is more than 30 years old and really needs replacement.   I'm trying to find a quick fence to get her off the chain. 
Which comes back to the electrical question.  Will making a "passing siding" on an electrical wire short out the system?
Gene

No.  Go ahead and use your extra  wire in parallel with the lower wire.  Your system doesn't require that the wire be a specified length, so it isn't using transmitted radio signals, its just creating an impedance field similar to the rfid antishoplifting tags at Walleyworld.

Mike

[NelsOn-30]

Gene
You are not off topic as you are obviously attempting to TRAIN your dog.

The collar requires adequate signal strength from the wire to operate.

Creating a parallel route (passing siding) to broaden coverage will split the electrical signal between each route and reduce the signal strength significantly, by 50%ish.

The power source likely incorporates control circuitry that maintains signal strength independent of wire length.

I understand that you are using 400’ of a supplied 500’ of wire. The leftover 100’ could be spliced in making a continuous 500’ length and routed back upon itself (a switchback) creating three physically parallel but electrically in series antennas for a 50’ section each with full signal strength.

I hope you find a solution to the TRAINing of your dog.

Nelson

[r.cprmier]

Gene;
Break down and buy an invisible fence kit.  The wire can be laid on the ground if it isn't in danger of physical damage; otherwise, turn over a slight shovelful of dirt alongthe intended path and bury the wire that way-do not go too deep, as this serves only as an antenna, and too deep will defeat its purpose.

The business end of ths system is a discharge unit worn on the dogs collar, with two electrodes making contact with his/her skin.  Training/familiarization is neccessary and it lessens the risk, as there is a warning tone that is audible (to all except me without my VA hospital hearing aids-one nice thing about being a GI).  If Fido or Fifi doesn't heed, then a Correction" will be issued via the little box at the collar.  The intensity of this setup as far as signal goes, is controlled at a device that picks up 120 vac.  This is going to be a breeze for you and it will give you a great deal of peace ofmind.  There several makes; mine was bought at "Petco".  Check it out.  Cody learned very fast; I can trust him out in the yard and that is good.  There is some maintenence, like replacing the battery-also, there is a grounding (bonding) terminal on the unit.  Do secure it to your grounding system.

Rich

[SteamGene]

Rich,
I HAVE an invisible fence set up!  It is, in fact, Petco, and Savannah has the high intensity collar.  She's still going over the fence to see her old family. 
Gene

[Yampa Bob]

We once had a cow that we couldn't TRAIN to stay home.  She enjoyed everyone's pasture except ours, but always came home to have her calf.  We called her an "easy keeper".  You might write a mail to the "Dog Whisperer".

Bob

[Redtail67]

had friend that had a pack of bear hounds and he used the shock collars on them the break them from running deer or elk. One day i borrowed it to put on a dog i had, an australian sheperd, to attempt to break him from chasing cars.

Well this dang dog was so determined that i would shock him and shock him. You could hold down the button and continuously shock untill you let off the button.

Finaly I would shock that stubborn beast to the ground and he would roll flop jump  scream and then I would let him up and away that son of a &%* would go after the car. I never broke him and he sure as the devil got killed by one.

You may have the same type of dog, he may just be so determined to go to wherever or to vist old friends, that short of killing him with high voltagre nothing will stop him.

[Yampa Bob]

Tie on a chain and cement block , (keeping the topic trains)  that will slow her down.

Bob