Never owned a train and have questions

[bertgamble2001]

Hello and Merry Christmas.

I have a Christmas Village that I put on a folding table.  The table is 6 feet long and 2.5 feet wide.  I would like to have a train that makes an oval loop around the outside of the table, with the village pieces on the inside of the loop.  I was thinking of going with HO gauge, but would like input on if that is the right size, or if I need to go smaller to be able to make the turns properly.  Additionally, I do not think that the train sets come with enough track to accomplish my goal.  I am guessing that I simply order additional track pieces when I order the set?  Lastly, can these trains operate on a 2 level track?  By that I mean, can I have the track go up and over the lower part of the track, or is it best to have it all one level?   

[Terry Toenges]

As far as width, train sets usually come with 18" radius track. That 36" diameter along the centerline. The actual diameter would be about 38". Bachmann does make 15" radius track.  The actual diameter would be about 32" because the roadbed is almost 2" wide. 2 1/2' (30") wouldn't be wide enough. I would want at least 1" space on either side so the track is not right on the edge. 34" is the minimum I would go in width.
As far as going up and over, you would probably have to use a 4% grade which is pretty steep if you tried to do it with only 6"in length. That's 3" clearance where it goes over.
With that steep of a grade and those sharp curves, you would want to keep it with not very many cars so your loco could pull them up the grade and keep it slow so you don't derail on the way down.
This pic is with  34" width and a 4% grade. There is a 1 1/4" straight on the left side so it would fir together with the 15" curves.

[bertgamble2001]

Thank you very much!

[jward]

Yes you can do an up and over as long as the grades aren't too steep. You can do a rough calculation using the number of full length track sections from the bottom of the grade to where it crosses above the other track. As Terry said, you'd need about 3" of vertical clearance in HO to do this. To estimate the grade, count the sections from the bottom to the top. For a 4% grade, the steepest I'd recommend, you'd need 9 sections, and you'd have about 3/8" rise per section. A better option would be to limit your grade to 3% which is 1/4" rise per section and you'd need 12 sections to reach the 3" elevation. Keep in mind that the steeper your grade the less cars your locomotive can pull. If you're using a diesel, that isn't much of an issue as all of the ones Bachmann uses in the train sets should be good for at least 8 cars on a 4% grade. But if you want the old fashioned steam engines their pulling power is drastically affected by the steepness of the grade. An 0-6-0 like the ones used in many Bachmann sets can only pull 3-4-cars up that 4% grade, the smaller "wild west" type 4-4-0s, and most of the Thomas themed locomotives will pull even less. If that's the ones you choose you should probably keep them on level track.

Terry has shown one way to do up and over via figure 8, but there is another way that can lengthen the track and therefore lessen the steepness of the grade. Lay your track as though it were two seperate loops, an ascending one and a descending one. At the very top, the tracks switch positions with the ascending loop becoming the descending one and vice versa. You've basically flipped one end of the figure 8 inside the other and created an inverted loop. Below is a partial view of my inder construction layout, which uses this idea. You can see how the two loops switch places, and how one climbs while the other descends. Yes, the train pictured is Bachmann, and yes, the locomotive will easily pull that train up the 4% grade it is sitting on.

[Terry Toenges]

If I understand what you are saying Jeff, he would have to go even wider with his layout wouldn't he or else one loop would be right above the other?

[jward]

If I understand what you are saying Len, he would have to go even wider with his layout wouldn't he or else one loop would be right above the other?

Yes, the loop part of my layout is 4 feet wide by 4 1/2 feet long. I could have gone as narrow as 42" and still used 18" radius. The back corner opposite where the train is has rubber retaining wall sections seperating the tracks. I am on night turn now, but to-morrow when I have time I'll try to take an overall view, and some photos showing the rest of the loop.

[Terry Toenges]

With that figure 8, the grades start and end with the curves. The straights are level. If you started the grades with the straights, you could have a lesser percentage grade.

[jward]

Your plan is probably best just the way you have it. To start the grades on the straights would mean an rather sharp transition between 4% up and 4% down that might cause problems. Better to leave at least one of those straights at the top and one at the bottom level to ease the transition. Honestly, Terry, you come up with some pretty good and workable plans.

[Terry Toenges]

Me and Anyrail

[Tenwheeler01]

HO may be to small of a scale for your Christmas village.   HO being 1/87 and person only around 3/4" tall. and G may be to big.  The few Christmas Village decorations we have are closer to 1/48 scale.  So O looks the best with them.   Just an observation.   With O you can do O27 track 27" diameter curve and O36 track 36" diameter curve.  Now something to think about is Bachmann On30.  This is O scale narrow gauge so it is 1/48 scale trains running on HO track.    HO 18" Radius and O36 take up around the same space.  O36 being about 2' wider if you are just setting up an oval.