Remote Turn Out Issues

[furstukin]

I just got the left and right turnout switches added to my track today and seems like the right one is not working properly. They both have power, and the remote switch makes the transfer section move for both, but almost every car I have derails from the right turnout. I tried all kinds of configurations but only one car consistently makes the transfer. Any other car pulled behind the locomotive, or behind the one tank car I have that has no issues, immediately derails as the front wheels fail to catch the turnout. If I try to roll to cars across the turnout by hand they seem to make the transfer, but when they are pulled, they go off track.

So, after an hour or more of frustration I decided to turn the train around and started testing the left turnout. And surprisingly I had no issues at all. Every car in any configuration, makes the transfer on the left turnout without issue.

So that leads me to believe the right turnout is faulty but would love to hear some opinions before I try to exchange it.

[trainman203]

YouTube has multiple videos about servicing tracks that suffer derailments.  As you would guess, there are multiple issues that can occur and multiple places with the tracking with the cars.  I would do a little research with those videos first

[furstukin]

YouTube has multiple videos about servicing tracks that suffer derailments.  As you would guess, there are multiple issues that can occur and multiple places with the tracking with the cars.  I would do a little research with those videos first

I did look at that first and so far none of the suggestions seems to be an issue for me. I have a smooth contact on the edges where the transfer bar meets the main rail (nothing like a hair or grain of dust causing a gap), there are no rough edges I can feel on the sides or top of the rails, and the decouple bars on the cars don't seem to be too low. I am going to try a new tack configuration and see if the right turnout still has that same issue, if so, I can't see anything else but it being faulty somehow.

[JonJet]

If all Your accusations against the turnout are true...

You have one railcar that is faulty as well...or it would derail like anything else

Having any railcar make it thru without any issues points to the other railcars...not the track

Check the wheels/gauge/truck tightness

Also insure that all cars meet at least the minimum NMRA weight standard

For HO Scale the standard is 1oz plus 1/2 ounce per inch of length

7 inch car = 1 oz plus 3.5 oz = 4.5oz total weight...MINIMUM

[furstukin]

If all Your accusations against the turnout are true...

You have one railcar that is faulty as well...or it would derail like anything else

Having any railcar make it thru without any issues points to the other railcars...not the track

Check the wheels/gauge/truck tightness

Also insure that all cars meet at least the minimum NMRA weight standard

For HO Scale the standard is 1oz plus 1/2 ounce per inch of length

7 inch car = 1 oz plus 3.5 oz = 4.5oz total weight...MINIMUM

I get your logic, but I have a loco and 1 car that makes it fine on either turnout, and 5 cars of questionable quality that don't, but they all work great on the other turnout. So I would again say it is not the cars but the turnout, since one turnout works with all cars and the other only works with the loco and my highest quality rolling stock car.

[JonJet]

For cars of a lesser quality...

Bring them up to standard and they should work fine

Even if they look gorgeous...it's what is underneath that does the real work

I can screw trucks/couplers to a brick and it will track perfectly

But even the prettiest Barbie will derail on bad undercarriage

[furstukin]

For cars of a lesser quality...

Bring them up to standard and they should work fine

Even if they look gorgeous...it's what is underneath that does the real work

I can screw trucks/couplers to a brick and it will track perfectly

But even the prettiest Barbie will derail on bad undercarriage

Yeah, I will need to upgrade some of these, but I just got everything 2 days ago, so still brand new to this.

[jward]

I get your logic, but I have a loco and 1 car that makes it fine on either turnout, and 5 cars of questionable quality that don't, but they all work great on the other turnout. So I would again say it is not the cars but the turnout, since one turnout works with all cars and the other only works with the loco and my highest quality rolling stock car.

You should definitely check the track with an NMRA guage. That is a good tool to have in this hobby as it helps you find problems and correct them.

Now the questions:
Do these cars deral at the points, or somewhere else? What is your track configuration coming into the switch? Is it straight track, or a curve? Does the curve run the same way as the switch itself, or the opposite way? WHat locomotive are you using? What cars are derailing? WHat cars are they coupled to when they derail?
Are all your rail joints properly seated on the other track sections? SOmetimes where the cars go off the rails is not the place where they actually derail. I've seen wheel flanges ride on top of the rail for quite a distance before they hit the ties.

[trainman203]

If you have any cars with truck mounted couplers, they will be contributing to your problem. If you have any cars with oversize flanges on the wheel (as per a NMRA gauge), they will be contributing to the problem.  If you have any coupler trip pins hanging too low, they will be contributing to the problem.  If you have wheel sets that are gauged too wide or too narrow, they can be contributing to the problem as well, especially if they enter a stretch of track whose gauge is also in error such that when combined, the summation of the two problems allow derailment.

Plastic wheels pick up track imperfections a lot more easily than metal wheels. If the offending car has plastic wheels, replace with metal.

Now, to the track switch.  The very beginning of the point rail where it meets the stock rail may be too sharp and pointed and picking at wheels and needs to be filed slightly. Look for the video that shows you how to do this. The same thing with the frog, if that's where the problem is happening, the point of the frog may be misshapen.  You need to check the gauge of the track itself through the entire track switch.  Sometimes the point rails aren't bent 100% correctly and will be out of gauge.  This has happened to me more than it should have, making wheels either jump the rail if it's too narrow or drop down if it's too wide.   For you to be having a such a global problem with derailments, I would suspect that everything I've mentioned above is causing one thing or another to fail.

If you don't know what of these railroad terms mean, you need to look them up so you know what they mean so we can have a sensible, accurate, and efficient discussion about this.

I am certain that I have not possibly picked up on every potential issue that could be lurking in your Railroad. If others find that I've missed something, please post.

All of this is part of your Model Railroad education.  It is not a turnkey pastime.  These little trains are demanding and fussy in multiple dimensions that make themselves known as you learn things.  I've been doing this almost 60 years and I still get at least an aggravation or two a day.

[furstukin]

I get your logic, but I have a loco and 1 car that makes it fine on either turnout, and 5 cars of questionable quality that don't, but they all work great on the other turnout. So I would again say it is not the cars but the turnout, since one turnout works with all cars and the other only works with the loco and my highest quality rolling stock car.

You should definitely check the track with an NMRA guage. That is a good tool to have in this hobby as it helps you find problems and correct them.

Now the questions:
Do these cars deral at the points, or somewhere else? What is your track configuration coming into the switch? Is it straight track, or a curve? Does the curve run the same way as the switch itself, or the opposite way? WHat locomotive are you using? What cars are derailing? WHat cars are they coupled to when they derail?
Are all your rail joints properly seated on the other track sections? SOmetimes where the cars go off the rails is not the place where they actually derail. I've seen wheel flanges ride on top of the rail for quite a distance before they hit the ties.

The turnout is coming off a straight section of track into an 18-degree turn. All connections on the track are smooth/flush with no rough edges I feel. The cars that derail are: a coal car, a tank car, a log dump car, a gondola, and the caboose. The one car that makes it is a Bachmann tank car, and the locomotive is a Diesel F7 Thoroughbred. The cars that derail do so in any configuration whether they are pulled directly behind the loco, behind the one tank car that can make it through, pulled alone or with additional load behind them. And they all seem to derail the same exact way, as they start to turn right the front right wheel fails to catch the track switch and they try to continue straight as the rest of the train is turning. It is very similar to if you have a train running through a turnout and suddenly your 3 y/o flips the switch on the turnout back to straight lol.

[Len]

This video covers manual switches, but I've run into the same issue with EZ-Track remote control switches. I used 0.020 spring stock from a local craft shop on mine to cure 'point picking'.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8K-9RtDj0t4

Len

[trainman203]

Let's get a report after all track and all wheelsets are checked with an NMRA gauge.  Let's also hear if any cars have truck mounted couplers and/or plastic wheels.  The type of car doesn't matter, the wheels and couplers do.  If one car is making it and others aren't, the problem is probably mostly with the cars.  It could be the weight of the cars, they may be too light.  Google NMRA recommended car weight.

This discussion is getting circular. We're saying the same things over and over again.  We need some harder information to solve the problem.

[furstukin]

This video covers manual switches, but I've run into the same issue with EZ-Track remote control switches. I used 0.020 spring stock from a local craft shop on mine to cure 'point picking'.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8K-9RtDj0t4

Len

This does indeed seem to be the problem I have filmed it in slow motion and just as it hits the point where the transfer rail meets the main rail the wheels slip in just enough to cause it derail. Not sure why my loco and one tank car make it through fine, but I have even tried adding a load to weigh some cars down and they still derail. That said I am not sure going through the process in the video is worth my time, since I can exchange it for a new one. And given the left one works I can only assume this is just poor-quality control.

But I did have a simpler idea I wanted to run by some people with more knowledge. If the rails are steel alloy, can I lightly magnetize the transfer rail so it wants to hold the main rail when in the transfer position or will that be a problem for the electrical track?

[furstukin]

Let's get a report after all track and all wheelsets are checked with an NMRA gauge.  Let's also hear if any cars have truck mounted couplers and/or plastic wheels.  The type of car doesn't matter, the wheels and couplers do.  If one car is making it and others aren't, the problem is probably mostly with the cars.  It could be the weight of the cars, they may be too light.  Google NMRA recommended car weight.

This discussion is getting circular. We're saying the same things over and over again.  We need some harder information to solve the problem.

There are no truck mounted couplers. Three cars do have plastic wheels which I will be replacing as soon as the metal ones arrive. All other cars have metal wheels. And I got a new car today that is a 60' Bulkhead Flatcar, also with metal wheels, and it has the same issue derailing on the right turnout, but the left turn out is fine.

But I think the video Len posted is the problem. In slow motion you can see the wheels slip in just slightly kicking the transfer rail off the main and it then derails. What is interesting is if you push a car through by hand holding it at the top it is fine, but when you roll it through at speed, (push it and let it roll down the track) it will derail just as if it is pulled by the loco. Also, if you push it through by hand holding it closer to the trucks it derails so when the torque is from the chassis as it is when it is pulled it derails.

[trainman203]

Len's video was one of the best I've seen on YouTube. The guy is competent, he doesn't ramble, and gets to the point..... unlike a lot of swell headed self-appointed windbag experts that appear too often.

Then a weak point spring appears to be the issue.  I have had that problem on one particular number 5 Bachmann switch on my layout.  The only problem is that my switch is completely buried in ballast and scenery so I can't flip it over to work underneath.  With a finished situation like mine, I need to install some kind of external switch stand to hold the points of the switch in place. The only problem is that there's no good place on the Bachmann throw bar to secure it.  As a result, when I'm switching this particular spur, I have to very carefully check the point to make sure it's secure against the stock rail.  It's kind of an aggravation but it's a lot better than ripping the whole thing out to service below.