Tenders question

[sour rails]

     I have one steam locomotive with another one on the way.  Recently, I've been thinking about getting another tender for it.  While looking at the tenders in HO scale, I noticed that some of them have wires sticking out of them to be hooked up to the cab, but some do not.  these wires look identical to the wires on my loco except that mine come from the loco to the tender, not from the tender to the loco.  Did Bachmann change the way the tenders are hooked up?
Thank you

[GN.2-6-8-0]

While a couple of the DCC equipted or DCC ready  Bachmann tenders with connectors may be interchangable most are not without modifing the boards within the tenders .
Look back through the posts here for more information on how some are doing this..

[SteamGene]

Brands and types would really help.  Yes, there are variations, even with the same brand.  For instance the Spectrum 2-8-0 and the USRA light 4-8-2 can both use the "medium" Vanderbilt tender, but one will need the included wiring harness because one has the wires from the locomotive and the other from the tender.  In addition, Bachmann, for instance, uses two plugs, one a 4 wire and the oher a 2 wire.  Proto 2000 uses two different methods, one intregrating draw bar with power and the other using one plug with, I think, 8 wires.   BLI uses a similar system, which may or may not be compatable.  Athearn uses a single plug, but no plug in the tender until a decoder is installed.  
Gene

[VTBob]

Is there any way to get a break-down list in outline form of what tenders are compatible with what ?-?-? steam locomotive please?

Thanks,
Bob

[Atlantic Central]

Bob,

Below is a copy of a post I wrote some time ago. it is a little long, but covers most of the tender compatiblity issues with non sound/DCC Bachmann Spectrum locos. The first part is about one particular swap, but tward the end there isa list that should help with most other combinations.

Tender Swap â€" Bachmann medium Vanderbilt oil tender (Item #89905) with 63” driver 10 wheeler (Item #82307)

Initial test using jumpers provided with the tender â€" dead short, no operation.

Original plan â€" move 10 wheeler circuit board into new tender. This proved unworkable for several reasons, 10 wheeler circuit board too large and wires too short to fit into Vanderbilt tender without major modifications to both the tender and the circuit board.

New plan â€" can existing circuit board from Vanderbilt tender be rewired to work with 10 wheeler. A simple examination of both circuit boards revealed that while different, they both have the same basic connections, so the problem must lie in pin assignments in the connectors.

Tracing wires and a few simple checks revealed that the two wire connector simply brings the loco pickups to the circuit board. Reversing the wires on one end of the two wire jumper corrected this. Now the loco runs but in the wrong direction.

Two of the wires on the four wire plug are the motor leads. Reversing them gave us correct operational direction.

This only left the front headlight. The circuit board in the Vanderbilt tender is for the 2-8-0 which has 12 volt lamps for lighting. The 10 wheeler uses LED’s, this is the main reason the circuit board is different. Rather than trying to modify the circuit, I simply replaced the loco headlight LED with a 12 volt lamp.

Additionally I added weight to the Vanderbilt tender bringing it weight to about 5 oz. and replaced all couplers with genuine Kadee #148 on both the loco front and tender.

Result â€" loco now converted, runs well with original 10 wheeler draw bar and looks great. 

This issue seems to be tied to what tender cam with what loco in the first place. I do not have all of the Bachmann spectrum locos, but from what I have seen, read and experianced, the following may be a good begining of a compatablity chart:

Light Mouintain & Consolidation will work with all of the "medium" tenders.

Heavy Mountain and 2-6-6-2 will work with the long coal tender, hicken tender and long vandy tender

Russian shares same tender with some 10 wheelers, so I am guessing they share the same circuit board.

The 10 wheeler is really a wild card here because it comes with three different tenders, depending on roadname. Some have the low, small "pre 1900" looking tender, some have the small tender from the Russian and one has the same tender as the consolidation, but obviously with a different circuit board.

But again, I think most of these differences are just the pin assignments and the type of headlight.

Sheldon

[SteamGene]

To augment what Sheldon has stated so well,  the Bachman USRA light 2-10-2 has the same style tender as the heavy 4-8-2 and the 2-6-6-2.  HOWEVER the curcuit board is different and doing something like pairing the 16V tender to the 2-10-2 without swapping boards is going to destroy the 2-10-2.  Or at least it is possible to do so.
While the medium Vanderbilt mates with the USFRA light 4-8-2, the placement of the plugs cause the wires to cross under the drawbar, which raises the front trucks off the tracks. 
While I believe it's possible to swap BLI tenders around, those with sound in them might cause some difficulty.  A  C&O T-1 tender behind a USRA light Mikado might look fine, but no Mike ever sounded like a Texas!
Gene

[sour rails]

  I think some of you don't understand what I am asking about.


     My locomotive is Bachmann.  But the question with the tenders is seen in product search of the Bachmann web site.  The loco I have has two plugs, one with four wires and the other with two.  Both are plugged into sockets in the tender.  But looking at the tenders in Product search, some of them have the two plugs that are to be plugged into sockets in the locomotive.

1.) My locomotive wires plug into tender.
But some of the tenders in Product search show that
2.) the tender has the wires to be plugged into the loco.

This is what is confusing me

[SteamGene]

You are not being specific.  We still don't know what locomotive you have and what tender interests you.
This is what I have.
The "medium" Vanderbilt has female plugs and a wiring harness that has female plugs on one end and male on the other.  It can be attached to any new Bachmann steam locomotive - but may not work.
The 16V tender has the wiring harness attached to it.  Without modification, it will work only with a Spectrum locomotive that has female plugs.  There again, while it will attach, it may not function correctly. 
Had you said, "I have a Spectrum USRA light Mountain - what tenders will work with it?"  you would have received a specific answer. 
Gene

[Atlantic Central]

Sour Rails,

We know, the tenders from the 2-8-0 and the light 4-8-2 have the sockets.

The other tenders have the wires/plugs.

The seperatly sold tenders with the sockets come with jumpers for the locos with sockets.

BUT - that does not mean the tender will work!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The medium tenders will only work with the 2-8-0 and the light 4-8-2.

The long tender, hicken tender and long vandy tender will only work with the heavy 4-8-2 and the 2-6-6-2.

The old time tender will only work with the 4-6-0 and MAYBE with the 2-10-0 russian.

NONE of the seperately sold tenders will work with the 2-10-2.

ALL OTHER TENDER SWAPS WILL REQUIRE SOME SORT OF REWIRING!!!!!!!

To make other matchups work, you need to reread what I posted above and understand how the locos are wired and make the necessary modifications.

Sheldon

[rogertra]

The easiest way to handle tender swaps is to ALWAYS keep the circuit board with the locomotive and to put the "locomotive's" circuit into the new tender, even if it meansd minor surgury to the front end of the new tender.

Mr. Bachmann.  PLEASE speak with the Powers That Be and have them standardise on circuit boards and connectors.  We want THE SAME connector on all locos, THE SAME connector on all tenders and THE SAME circuit board in all locomotives.

[Atlantic Central]

Roger,

That is easy to say but not easy to do - the 4-6-0 circuit board will not fit in the medium vandy tender - just to mention one difficult swap.

Personally I find it much easier and a much nicer job to relocate the wires in the connectors and change a lamp or two. As opposed to the cutting, hacking, jury rigging of swaping the circuit board.

As for Bachmann standardizing, that would be nice but the horse is already out of the barn - but lets hope they at least stay within current designs.

I must say, I don't understand why so may find my solution to this problem so difficult. And, if I was using DCC like many of you, I would just ditch the circuit board all together and wire the decoder direct.

Sheldon

[sour rails]

  OK,  It seems as if I'm the one not understanding what you guys mean by jumper cables.  The Spectrum 2-8-0 that I have will work with the medium vanderbuilt tender I'm looking at getting.  But apparently, the question I had at the beginning of this post has to deal with these jumper cables of which I still don't understand.
Thanks for having patience with my confusing details.

[SteamGene]

The Spectrum 2-8-0 will work perfectly with the "medium" Vanderbilt tender.  I think you can use the cables from the locomotive and save the "jumper" cables for later use.
Gene