I need help with a picture I saw....

[Chesticus]

I was at a train show in LA, and I saw a picture of an engine that I have not seen before. It looked like a GS-4 (war baby), but it was much longer. I think it had a 4-6-6-4 or a 4-8-8-4 wheel configuration. It was not a Big Boy, and it was not a Challenger. If anyone knows what it was I would really like some information on it.

Chesticus

Watch The Skies

[Yukonsam]

Hi

It must have been a pcture of SP class AC-9 you saw.
A conventional 2-8-8-4 built by Lima in 1939.
Built as coal burners for use between El Paso and Tucumcari, converted to oil in 1950 and used between Sparks, Nevada and Alturas and Wendel, California.
All were gone by 1956.

Regards, Yukonsam

[SteamGene]

All 4-6-6-4s are Challengers
All 4-8-8-4s are Big Boys. 
They are names of wheel arrangements. 
Some Challengers were not UP Challengers, though the Big Boy was used only by UP.
Gene

[RAM]

do a search on SP class AC-9.  There is a nice picture of one.

[Jim Banner]

Gene, some of us use the term "Mallet" (pronounced "mal-lay") for any kind of articulated locomotive, compound or not.

Seems to me UP Challengers were developed in the mid 30's, some 15 or 20 years after Mallets had started giving way to Bayer-Garratts in other parts of the world.  Which begs the question - would 4-6-6-4 and 4-8-8-4 Bayer-Garratts also be called Challengers and Big Boys?


with thanks to Yukonsam for the correct spelling of Beyer-Garratt.

[SteamGene]

Jim,
I don't know enough about Bayer Garrets to hazard a guess.  But don't they have another set between the drivers? 
Gene

[Yukonsam]

Hi

The proper name is Beyer-Garratt

Invented by Herbert William Garratt, and built by Beyer-Peacock and Co. of Manchester, England.

The boiler and cab is hung on a cradle between two engine units, one carrying water, the other carrying coal/oil.
There are no wheels under the cradle.

There have been discussions on other forums if a 4-8-8-4 Beyer-Garratt could be called a Big Boy.
The answer was No! Maybe "Big Boy of Australia", but it is still a Garratt (for short).

To Chesticus

Have you found out something more about your engine qustion?
The 2-8-8-4 is called a Yellowstone.

Regards, Yukonsam

[Hamish K]

The wheel arrangements for Garratts are written with a + between the two sets of wheels. Also if there are no leading or trailing wheels  with a given set of drivers a "0" is shown. Thus the original K1 Tasmanian Garratt is an 0-4-0+0-4-0. The equivelent of a Big Boy would be 4-8-0+0-8-4, there were some of this arrangement, in India at least. For larger locomotives trailing wheels were common. In Australia we had 4-8-2+2-8-4s and 4-8-4+4-8-4s but no 4-8-0+0-8-4s that I know of. The preserved  30 inch gauge Garratt at "Puffing Billy" is a 2-6-0+0-6-2.

I presume the + rather than a - is used for Garratts as each set of wheels is attached to its own frames, with the frames pivotting. With Mallets and most other articulated locomtives there is one set of frames, with one set of wheels (or both in the case of Meyer and some other types of articulated locomotives) pivotting within the frames.

A good site for Garratts is users.powernet.co.uk/hamilton

Hamish

[Chesticus]

Actually The AC-9 seems to look pretty much like the Picture I saw. What a beast of a machine it was. The sad part of this whole adventure is that it is only done in brass from what I have been able to gather ($3000). So I guess it goes on my dream list.

Thanks for the help.

Are there some historical books you guys could guide me to that have pictures of some of the "odd" wheel set configurations. I just saw a 4-4-6-2 during my search for the affore mentioned engine. Really really neat stuff.

Chesticus

[Hamish K]

If you like locomotive oddities have a look at www.dself.dsl.pipex.com/MUSEUM/LOCOLOCO/locoloco.htm

The site is not specifically about wheel arrangements and is not american, although quite a few of the locos are.

Hamish

[ebtnut]

Keep your eye out at train shows and maybe E-bay for the Akane AC-9.  They did the model back in the '60's (in brass) and back then could be had for about $100.00.  Of course time and inflation have raised the bar, but you should not pay anywere near $3000.00 for one of them.  In general, the Akanes (pronounced ah-con-nee, BTW), were nice models that ran pretty well for their time.  Remotoring with a modern can will improve them even more. 

[r.cprmier]

Back in the 60's, AHM (Rivarossi) came out with a "Cab Foward".  It was equipped with the usual over-sized "pizza-cutter" flanges, undersized drivers, and their usual agita-producing motor.
If you are adventurous, and possibly a glutton for punishment, one might be had for maybe a hundred or so on possible evil-bay, a train show, flea markets, etc.  I seem to remember my buddy Ted having one as a kid.  I know he had a Tenshodo 4-6-6-4.  I was just a poor kid who couldn't afford such trains.  Now, I am an older kid who has such trains.  No, nothing is for sale!  See my executor afterward...

Rich

[Yukonsam]

Hi

I have one of those Rivarossi models. It is an AC-11 as the number on the cab and lettering tells me.

It is quite beautiful, sitting on a shelf with some PFE reefers and a proper caboose. Perfect as a conversation piece and as a decoration.

Otherwise, the old Rivarossi is useless.

The Cab Forwards were built by Baldwin, the class AC-9 were built by Lima.

Paying hundred or so on E-bay for this model?
That´s robbery.

Regards, Yukonsam