Bachmann Duncan Thread

[JLK2707]

Mattel should have just fixed Duncan's CGI render to make him look like in the RWS.

[Coaltronn]

I am severely disappointed that this was cancelled. I ordered the whole Bachmann line this year and was extremely excited about Duncan.  I can understand the reasoning but i refuse to believe that there isnt a path forward for duncan to be produced. I know many thomas fans have a threshold that we want them to meet but having a character is better than not having them. obviously there may be options years from now but thats the problem. completing the HON30 should be a priority. sounds like a 3d printed model would be the way forward with this news.

[DustyMarie53!]

Given the reasoning provided I can completely understand why Duncan was cancelled for the time being. It's a shame but it's an understandable one. Plus, they said the lack of cross appeal was just one reason. So, there may be more Doug didn't let on during the stream. My hope is maybe they are just going to move to the other three cgi engines, and then ask Mattel to let them use the model refs. But we will have to see. Unfortunately, with the reason of cross appeal being an issue, not sure we'll ever get Duke. Competing directly with Prince. Since he could be retooled into Bertram that might still give him a boost but I'm less confident in him now. Freddie would actually be a really good choice still since there still isn't a RTR Russel on the market. There is a kit now though, so idk. It's interesting to think about after this decision I suppose.

[MrNormalDraws]

One thing I don't get is Doug's reasoning of cross appeal. Most fans stated that it's likely because Duncan isn't accurate to the real basis, which I get that part. But we got Rusty, who unlike the other 4 engines, is based more on his model just with extra vents. Whereas the first four are a hybrid on the models and real basis.

[DustyMarie53!]

One thing I don't get is Doug's reasoning of cross appeal. Most fans stated that it's likely because Duncan isn't accurate to the real basis, which I get that part. But we got Rusty, who unlike the other 4 engines, is based more on his model just with extra vents. Whereas the first four are a hybrid on the models and real basis.

Doug said it was first and foremost cause of the production cost. The expense would have been about the same as Sir Handel, and wouldn't have the basis appeal the other steamers have. That was one of the factors, Doug implied there was more. Rusty simply didn't have this problem because he was simpler. This does put anyone beyond Luke and Millie in weird territory I reckon, so I'll be curious to see where this goes from here. Doug said similiar things regarding Harvey and D10's production cost.

[Cheeky_ULP]

The unpopularity with the CGI Duncan being a legitimate concern for the product shows that Bachmann and Mattel need to sit down and re-analyze Duncan's design, as it was not properly designed up to standards with Duncans previous incarnations. This is no longer just an opinion among the fandom, as it's now objectively affecting the potential sales of a product.

Duncan has come in -many- shapes between the Railway Series and different seasons of the model era. Surely, surely, some level of creative liberties would be acceptable with him. Somehow it needs to be communicated to Mattel that the CGI mandate needs more flexibility, as Duncan would sell better by being more faithful to his historic designs. CGI Duncan also headlined only... Two? Episodes, maybe a couple more. A design that is barely half a decade old and was poorly received shouldn't be overruling the designs Duncan has been known to have for over half a century. Mattel, in the grand scheme of things, gains nothing financially by enforcing the mandate for Duncan; if anything, they're losing potential sales.

[harrison05]

And now fans will be at Bachmann to "GiVe DuNcAn AnOtHeR gO".

[Cheeky_ULP]

And now fans will be at Bachmann to "GiVe DuNcAn AnOtHeR gO".

Considering people were looking forward to Duncan (especially when there was a good amount of pre-orders), it's completely reasonable for people to hope that Duncan is given another design attempt, and that a compromise can be found between all parties involved with the creation of the model. I don't think it really benefits the discussion to generalize the entire market in a condescending tone of voice.

[harrison05]

And now fans will be at Bachmann to "GiVe DuNcAn AnOtHeR gO".

Considering people were looking forward to Duncan (especially when there was a good amount of pre-orders), it's completely reasonable for people to hope that Duncan is given another design attempt, and that a compromise can be found between all parties involved with the creation of the model. I don't think it really benefits the discussion to generalize the entire market in a condescending tone of voice.

I know people were looking forward to Duncan (I was too he's my favourite NG character) but people are pestering Bachmann and some at Trainworld like crazy about Duncan. Yes people are still allowed to say they want Duncan and can request him (that shows how popular he really is) but not constantly all the time. I think we all need to be patient, wait and see what happens with like you said "all parties involved with the creation of the model."

[Cheeky_ULP]

And now fans will be at Bachmann to "GiVe DuNcAn AnOtHeR gO".

Considering people were looking forward to Duncan (especially when there was a good amount of pre-orders), it's completely reasonable for people to hope that Duncan is given another design attempt, and that a compromise can be found between all parties involved with the creation of the model. I don't think it really benefits the discussion to generalize the entire market in a condescending tone of voice.

I know people were looking forward to Duncan (I was too he's my favourite NG character) but people are pestering Bachmann and some at Trainworld like crazy about Duncan. Yes people are still allowed to say they want Duncan and can request him (that shows how popular he really is) but not constantly all the time. I think we all need to be patient, wait and see what happens with like you said "all parties involved with the creation of the model."

It's going to happen inevitably for a little while since the news is fresh. I don't think there's much point in ridiculing or trying to police people for wanting the decision to be reconsidered. To add, if there was silence, then Bachmann and Mattel would simply assume that they made the right call and that there was not strong demand for Duncan, when that's obviously not the case.

[Chaz]

It should be worth noting the large scale Diesel was at one point canceled a year after his original introduction.  Two years went by and Bachmann was able to bring him back in production, likely due to fan requests and Bachmann being able to navigate a better price for the model.  Paxton's introduction I'm sure was another big factor into this as he was announced a year after Diesel, being released around the same time.

I could see the same happen with Duncan, purely because he's the last remaining classic narrow gauge engine the response to the cancellation has been much, much stronger than the large scale Diesel was.  At this point, it's really going to be a matter of Bachmann figuring out a better price for Duncan and a design that would be more widely appealing for all modelers.  It's not impossible, but it will probably take a couple of years like how LS Diesel did before this happens.  As Doug said, it's not totally "dead", the plug just needs to be pulled for the time being, so there's still hope.

It might be better in the long run for Bachmann to take their time with this one anyways so they can focus more on getting Sir Handel and all the previous narrow gauge stock done first.  Once more progress has made on these, and Bachmann has a more solid plan with Mattel in terms of the design and pricing, I can see them looking into Duncan again.  If not, then there's other characters out there for Bachmann to choose like Victor, Luke and/or Millie and saving Duncan for a much later time.

[JLK2707]

What if there is no hope for Duncan?

[DustyMarie53!]

It might be better in the long run for Bachmann to take their time with this one anyways so they can focus more on getting Sir Handel and all the previous narrow gauge stock done first.  Once more progress has made on these, and Bachmann has a more solid plan with Mattel in terms of the design and pricing, I can see them looking into Duncan again.  If not, then there's other characters out there for Bachmann to choose like Victor, Luke and/or Millie and saving Duncan for a much later time.

You already addressed why Diesel was different thanks to Paxton, but wanted to talk about this part. I think it's rather telling that we've had products on indefinite hold for around 4 years now in DCC Thomas and Percy. I've seen some people suggest that it was just because of the clogged-up pipeline, however if that were the case I don't think they would have cancelled it. They're clearly willing to wait it out, so I doubt even when Sir Handel is done that'll change things. They're probably just going to get the more likely to be hit narrow gauge engines you said out of the way first, before risking a gamble on Duncan. Which makes sense to me. Maybe then they can use the model refs as well if they stall long enoug.

I do think there's something interesting. Trainworld has a feature to search by rank in people's watchlists. Sir Handel's only been up for preorder for a little bit and is already in top 7 of Thomas preorders, within top 35 period on Trainworld's website. These don't equal sales inherently but do equal interest. Now, what product is at the bottom? The gunpowder wagons are the least watchlisted Thomas item. I don't know for sure where Duncan fell, but lack of interest on that front and actual preorder numbers may have been a factor for their ultimate decision. Afterall I only know one person who actually preordered him

[Mulfred100]

It might be better in the long run for Bachmann to take their time with this one anyways so they can focus more on getting Sir Handel and all the previous narrow gauge stock done first.  Once more progress has made on these, and Bachmann has a more solid plan with Mattel in terms of the design and pricing, I can see them looking into Duncan again.  If not, then there's other characters out there for Bachmann to choose like Victor, Luke and/or Millie and saving Duncan for a much later time.

You already addressed why Diesel was different thanks to Paxton, but wanted to talk about this part. I think it's rather telling that we've had products on indefinite hold for around 4 years now in DCC Thomas and Percy. I've seen some people suggest that it was just because of the clogged-up pipeline, however if that were the case I don't think they would have cancelled it. They're clearly willing to wait it out, so I doubt even when Sir Handel is done that'll change things. They're probably just going to get the more likely to be hit narrow gauge engines you said out of the way first, before risking a gamble on Duncan. Which makes sense to me. Maybe then they can use the model refs as well if they stall long enoug.

I do think there's something interesting. Trainworld has a feature to search by rank in people's watchlists. Sir Handel's only been up for preorder for a little bit and is already in top 7 of Thomas preorders, within top 35 period on Trainworld's website. These don't equal sales inherently but do equal interest. Now, what product is at the bottom? The gunpowder wagons are the least watchlisted Thomas item. I don't know for sure where Duncan fell, but lack of interest on that front and actual preorder numbers may have been a factor. Afterall I only know one person who actually preordered him

Well yes they don't equal sales and it's also notable that everything in the top 25 has had some from of product reveal baring DCC Thomas and Percy which let's face it we all know how they'll look. So 26th is Diesel in N Scale then you go all the way to 32nd which is the Gondola in oxide red which is the second product in that list not to have had any product reveal and everything below that are also products that again haven't had any product samples yet besides the slate wagons which are just the same as what we have now in different colours. How many times have sales increased due to a product being shown on a stream? Most modellers I know wait until there's a visual to pre order and that's across the entire board not just Thomas. I mean you say Sir Handel is 7th but now but unless you've been tracking his movements for months it's just whataboutism. All i draw from that is people are more likely to "wishlist" something and order something when theres a product to show, its basic human nature and happens in every single industry going, sales increase when theres a product shown. Duncan might have had 1 pre order placed, he might have had 100, we don't know. However what we do know is what Doug said and a history to draw on. It's taken Bachmann a long time to get Sir Handel finished, I mean I say that and he's still not finished now, there's the wagons to finish off and get released too. Over the last few years 009 in the Thomas line has suffered abit because there's so much on the table to get done across the board. Let's just see what happens over the next few years. It's not like there's nothing else to look forward to and plenty ideas to bat around and put down on the table.

[DustyMarie53!]

Adding on to my initial point Sir Handel shot up instantly once his preorders went live accordig to some friends at trainworld, both on an actual sales front and on the wishlist front, which predated the visual reveal. I will say I've only cataloged the actual positions on the wishlist side recently, so the sales is the more important point here. If Duncan didn't meet that same instant success that may have given them cold feet on top of the reasons already directly highlighted by Doug. It is speculative, and the specifics don't really matter because we already have at least one of the reasons outlined to us. But Doug did imply there was more he chose not to outline. So, I think trying to speculate to pinpoint what those other factors may have been is useful for future speculation. I do also think you're also right on the money. The lack of updates in the scale across the board and just how many undelivered products there are, is ultimately hurting the line in the long run. I hope they wait a while before announcing anything else for the scale, let the stuff already announced breathe and release. Then go from there with whoever and whatever rolling stock they want. They're making steady work through the pipeline as is. Slate wagons are done, the high side wagons are as well, all the TR stuff is now as well, all these things need to just ship. Sir Handel just needs to be painted and go into full production. If we can get the other 6 wagons finished before announcing anymore I think that'd ultimately be for the best.