How do I put new couplers on my old rolling stock with talgo trucks

[Desert Rose]

How do I fix couplers? There are three different types of couplers shown find the one that look like yours and follow the pictures for that type.

TALGO TRUCKS FIELD SERVICE KIT RTR RECOUPLING:

:  2 EACH.        KADEE TALGO TRUCKS ADAPTORS ....................................................................P/N:212
:  2 EACH.        WALTHERS HORN-HOOK COUPLERS(X-2F) ....................................................P/N:933-995
:                                                      OR
:                        KADEE No.5 COUPLERS ..........................................................................................P/N: No.5
:                                                      OR
:                        KADEE No.148 WHISKER COUPLERS .................................................................P/N:148
:                                                      OR
:                        WALTHERS PROTO MAX COUPLERS ..................................................................P/N:920-6002
:                                                      OR
:                        BACHMANN E-Z MATE COUPLERS .....................................................................P/N:78025
:  4 EACH.        INTERMOUNTAIN 33" METAL WHEELSETS ........................................................P/N: W40050
:  1 EACH.        MICRO-MARK COUPLER GAUGE FOR HO STANDARD GAUGE .................P/N:82824
:  1 EACH.        ULTRA FLAT KRYLON RED OXIDE PRIMER ..........................................................P/N:51317
:  1 EACH.        X-ACTO No. PRECISION KNIFE ................................................................................P/N: EPIX3201
:  1 EACH.        SINGLE END PICK
:  1 EACH.        LABELLE 108 MULTI - PURPOSE LIGHT WEIGHT OIL (PLASTIC SAFE) ......P/N:98552-00108
:  1 EACH.        MICRO-MARK PAINT MASK FOR HO SCALE WHEELS ....................................P/N:86225

         

UPGRADED TALGO TRUCKS

:  TYCO TALGO TRUCK.
:  KADEE TALGO TRUCKS ADAPTOR.
:  INTERMOUNTAIN 33" METAL WHEELSETS.
:  KADEE No.5 COUPLERS.
:  ULTRA FLAT KRYLON RED OXIDE PRIMER.




TASK: DISASSEMBLE TRUCK.

:  USING A SINGLE END PICK PULL LOCK PIN BACK AND TWIST COUPLER COUNTERCLOCKWISE.



:  PULL COUPLER OUT.



:  SPREAD TRUCK ENDS OUT REMOVE WHEEL SET.



TASK: TALGOTRUCK GEAR BOX ASSEMBLY - USING KADEE No.5 COUPLERS.

:  USING A X-ACTO KNIFE REMOVE THE GEAR BOX TABS.


:  USING A SINGLE END PICK PULL LOCK PIN ARM BACK.



:  USING TWEEZERS INSERT KADEE No.634 CENTERING SPRING N0.5 STYLE IN TO THE
  GEAR BOX.



:  INSERT KADEE N0.5 COUPLER INTO THE KADEE No.634 CENTERING SPRING AND IN TO THE
  GEAR BOX.



:  RELEACE THE LOCK PIN TAB BY REMOVING THE SINGLE END PICK.



:  INSERT THE KADEE TALGO TRUCK ADAPTOR CROSSWISE IN GEAR BOX OPENING.



:  TURN AND PRESS DOWN THE KADEE TALGO TRUCK ADAPTOR 90°.





:  PRESS THE KADEE TALGO TRUCK ADAPTOR DOWN AND SNAP IN PLACE.



:  MOVE THE COUPLER FROM CENTER TO FULL RIGHT STOP AND RELEACE -THE COUPLER SHOULD
  RETURN TO CENTER.  MOVE THE COUPLER FROM CENTER TO FULL LEFT STOP AND RELEACE -THE
  COUPLER SHOULD RETURN TO CENTER.

 
Top view

Bottom view

TASK: TALGOTRUCK GEAR BOX ASSEMBLY - USING BACHMAN MARK II COUPLERS.

:  USING A X-ACTO KNIFE REMOVE THE GEAR BOX TABS.



:  USING A SINGLE END PICK PULL LOCK PIN ARM BACK.



:  USING FINGERS SPREAD OUT THE WISKERS ON THE BACHMAN MARK II COUPLER.



:  INSERT BACHMAN MARK II COUPLER INTO THE GEAR BOX.



:  RELEACE THE LOCK PIN TAB BY REMOVING THE SINGLE END PICK.



:  INSERT THE KADEE TALGO TRUCK ADAPTOR CROSSWISE IN GEAR BOX OPENING.



:  TURN AND PRESS DOWN THE KADEE TALGO TRUCK ADAPTOR 90°.




:  PRESS THE KADEE TALGO TRUCK ADAPTOR DOWN AND SNAP IN PLACE.



:  MOVE THE COUPLER FROM CENTER TO FULL RIGHT STOP AND RELEACE -THE COUPLER SHOULD
  RETURN TO CENTER.  MOVE THE COUPLER FROM CENTER TO FULL LEFT STOP AND RELEACE -THE
  COUPLER SHOULD RETURN TO CENTER.


Top view


Bottom view

TASK: TALGOTRUCK GEAR BOX ASSEMBLY - USING WALTHERS HORN-HOOK COUPLERS(X-2F).

:  USING A SINGLE END PICK PULL LOCK PIN ARM BACK.



:  USING FINGERS SPREAD OUT THE WISKERS ON THE WALTHERS HORN-HOOK COUPLERS(X-2F) TO
  INSURE COUPLER RETURN.



:  INSERT WALTHERS HORN-HOOK COUPLERS(X-2F) INTO THE GEAR BOX.



:  RELEACE THE LOCK PIN TAB BY REMOVING THE SINGLE END PICK.



:  INSERT THE KADEE TALGO TRUCK ADAPTOR CROSSWISE IN GEAR BOX OPENING.



:  TURN AND PRESS DOWN THE KADEE TALGO TRUCK ADAPTOR 90°.




:  PRESS THE KADEE TALGO TRUCK ADAPTOR DOWN AND SNAP IN PLACE.



:  MOVE THE COUPLER FROM STOP TO CENTER AND RELEACE -THE COUPLER SHOULD RETURN
  TO STOP.


TOP

BOTTOM

TASK: PANTING TRUCK ASSEMBLY

:  WASH TRUCK ASSEMBLY WITH SOAP AND WATER AND RINSE WITH WATER.



:  MASK OFF TRUCK KING PIN AND DECOUPLING ARM.



:  PAINT TRUCK ASSEMBLY.



:  AFTER PAINTING DE-MASK TRUCK KINGPIN AND DECOUPLING ARM.



:  FOR KNUCKLE COUPLERS LUBRICATE THE KNUCKLE PIN USING LABELLE 108 MULTI - PURPOSE
  LIGHT WEIGHT OIL.



TASK: PANTING WHEEL ASSEMBLIES

:  WASH WHEEL SETS WITH SOAP AND WATER AND RINSE WITH WATER.



:  MASK OFF WHEEL SETS.



:  PAINT WHEEL SETS.



:  AFTER PAINTING CLEAN AXLE ENDS.



TASK: WHEEL TO TRUCK ASSEMBLY.

:  INSERT WHEEL SET AXLE END INTO JOURNAL BOX.



:  SPREAD TRUCK SIDE FRAME ENDS OUT INSERT WHEEL SET AXLE END IN TO JOURNAL BOX.



NOTE: WITH PROPER INSTALLATION ALL COUPLERS WILL LINE UP.




TASK: COUPLER HEIGHT VERIFICATION.

:  USING A MICRO-MARK COUPLER GAUGE FOR HO STANDARD CHECK CLEARANCE.

NOTE: COUPLERS SHOULD HIT THE COUPLER GAUGE IN THE SAME PLACE WITH NO DROOP.




TASK: TRANSITIONAL CAR.

:  ONE TRUCK WITH A KNUCKLE CUPLER, AND ONE TRUCK WITH A HOOK HORN COUPLER.

NOTE: THIS ALOWS THE OPERATION OF ROLLING STOCK WITH KNUCKLE COUPLERS AND HOOK HORN
 

[Terry Toenges]

Is that wheel set holder something you made? Those talgo truck adapters were a great idea for whoever invented them. I just converted an old track cleaning caboose with knuckle couplers using the adapters.

[Desert Rose]

The wheel set holder is a Acrylic Paint Mask For Ho Scale Wheels. see LaserKit by American Model Builders no. 910 and 911. http://www.laserkit.com/laserkit.htm

[Penn1974]

Not sure what the op is asking? Yes you can go through the procedures that were shown to replace couplers on Talgo trucks. Is it because of the type of couplers or for another reason such as diameter of curves that cause derailments or for the length of cars that you might be using on a smaller radii  track? You can cut off the Talgo couplers from the trucks and replace them with body mount kadee couplers. Did this on some old Rivarrossi heavyweight 6 wheel trucks on passenger cars.

[Terry Toenges]

Probably because some people have old cars that still have horn hook couplers but they aren't worth going through all the time and expense of body mounting them. This is a quick, easy, and cheap solution. I've done it with some of my old cars. I hated to get rid of them but didn't want to spend a lot of time messing with them.

[trainman203]

There's a lot less time and expense to attach a coupler pocket to a car body instead of going through all of the complicated stuff shown above. You just drill mounting holes and screw it in, or you can attach it with contact cement if that's inconvenient, such as on cast zamac metal car floors, although such floors appear to have gone away back in the Jurassic.

Truck mounted couplers are guaranteed to give you bad operation if you back your train up much at all through switches. On long unit trains rolling continuously forward that the OP appears to have, it might not matter much. But with any kind of backup moves, which real railroads do all the time, truck mounted couplers push the truck to one side, the flanges are guaranteed to pick at and catch every possible molecule anywhere that could possibly derail a car.

I learned all of this 50 years ago as a young modeler beginning to get beyond loop operation and into switching, who still had a few cars from the original train set rolling on the layout. Once in a while, I will buy some "heritage" car from the distant modeling past on eBay. The first thing that happens on arrival is that those Talgo trucks come off and get replaced with state of the art trucks with metal RP25 or better flange wheels, and body mounted couplers. Those toy train trucks invariably have wheels with pizza cutter toy train flanges on the wheels that, coupled with the sideways back up pressure, will put your train on the ground every time. And half the time the holes in the journals are not shaped properly to accept contemporary wheels.

[Terry Toenges]

Complicated? You pry up the nib, remove the old coupler. If you use whisker couplers, insert the new one then twist the adapter in and you're done. With the whiskers ones you don't need the metal thing. No drilling to make sure you get the hole in the right place. You don't have to find the right size drill bit and the right size screw. No gluing while making sure you have it centered correctly.  You can buy just the couplers without the added expense of having to  pay for the boxes, too.

[trainman203]

Boy, all those pictures....  Sure looks complicated to me. Or maybe, just overdocumented. 

But, keeping those truckmounted couplers is a certain guarantee to have lousy operation. End of thought. After you read Model Railroad magazines a real long time, you'll see that no one serious about it keeps them.

All Kadee couplers come packaged with the draft gearbox included, unless you're buying a bulk pack.  In my own opinion, Kadee metal couplers are the only ones you ought to be buying anyway. No knock on the Bach Man's couplers, I know they're a good bit cheaper. But that's because they are plastic, and plastic couplers have a very high chance of failing one way or the other.

[Terry Toenges]

If it looks too complicated to you then maybe this is the wrong hobby for you. You still have to do the drilling and screwing or gluing. A lot of those old cars don't have flat bottoms so you have file off/grind off/slice off the extra plastic to even get a flat spot to mount the box.
My Athearn heavyweight passenger cars and my AHM/TYCO/Rivarossi old time passenger cars aren't flat on the bottom where the boxes would go.
My AHM/TYCO/Rivarossi old timer passenger cars do just fine with McHenry couplers. My Athearn heavyweights and Lifelike AMTRAK passenger cars do just fine with truck mounted Kadee's. I just converted my old track cleaning caboose to Kadee's with talgo adapters and no problems there.
I don't read Model Railroad magazine either.
Besides, not everyone has the talent that you have for these things .

[trainman203]

Way back in the Jurassic when they had metal steam locomotive kits, I built probably eight or nine of them, so I know what complexity is.  Building these kits is a completely lost skill, and its own kind of fun.  I built the Mantua mikado, three Roundhouse 0-6–0 SP switchers, two Varney Casey Jones 4–6–0's, a Mantua 0–4–0 shifter, and heavily converted an AHM Reno 4-4-0 into a 20th century lumber mill switcher. Plus I remotored a brass Wabash 2–6–0 and Ma and Pa 4–6–0.  All when I was 17 years old.

My point is that if you do backup moves, Talgo trucks are going to give you problems.  If you don't switch yards and rail customers, you don't have a problem.  I'm not going to run them. If they work for you that's great. They never worked for me.

[jward]

I agree with Trainman. FOr all the effort put into those talgo adapters, it would have been easier to just body mount the couplers, and you'd have better performing cars too.

Think of it this way. Backing a train full of talgo cars is like trying to push a chain. Things are going to go every way but the way you want them to.

There is a reason why when Bachmann upgraded their cars they went with body mounted couplers.

[trainman203]

Great analogy, Jeffrey. Pushing a chain. Couldn't have done better myself.

The other thing is, looking at those toy train trucks, they have really big bolster holes to snap them to the car body.  That is tinplate/toy train methodology. I can't believe that those snap-on trucks are better than even the ones Accurail sells with standard mounting holes. Those are great trucks and you can buy them in bulk from Accurail in black, gray or boxcar red. Install Intermountain metal wheels and you have a top grade rolling car.

 A basic model railroad skill is to plug the oversize bolster hole and re-drill to anccept upgraded trucks. Nothing hard about it at all, and with the new trucks and the new couplers, you'll have top performance. Old often exactly the right size to fill those holes with. While  you're buying the trucks from Accurail, they also sell the screws to mount the good trucks with and the screws to mount coupler draft boxes on the car.

http://www.accurail.com/accurail/parts.htm

It's just the way I feel. All that work on those trucks and keeping the truck mounted couplers in the end is much like what we used to call out in the country "putting perfume on a pig."

[trainman203]

I do remember the OP talking elsewhere about running 100-something car unit trains If you've got that many cars, maybe you really are looking for a cost efficient way to keep what you have as much as you can, but just improve it some. And if all you do on the layout is run those long trains forward, and never back them up, the talgo trucks won't matter.

[Desert Rose]

You are missing the point a little bit. I get a lot of Grampas asking the same thing, I got my old train out so I can run it on the kitchen table with my grandson. How do I fix couplers so I can run my train on the kitchen table? The answer: You pry up the nib, remove the old coupler. insert the new one then twists the adapter in, and you're done. There are three different types of couplers shown find the one that look like yours and follow the pictures for that type. This is not a competition on the better way to screw in a light bulb, Grampa just wants to fix the coupler.

 P.S. It takes me one minute to change out a coupler. It takes Grampa four minutes to change out a coupler, his kitchen table railroad is up and running in the same day. 
        Grandbabies are happy.  Grandma is happy.  Grandpa has hero statice.

[trainman203]

Up with grandpa.  If he can get the kid off of the iPhone long enough to fix the train.

I tried one day to get my grandson to build a Athearn kit with me. He glazed over and went right back to his ninja schminza Pokémon baloney.