30 degree crossover

[Hammond Gramps]

 I have purchased 2 30% crossovers for my HO tracks. The first one was the original black track, and then I purchased the newer gray one.  Every time a 2-6-0 loco goes over the crossing the engine will stop. When my 4x4 diesel engines go over it will hesitate which will cause some of the following cars to disconnect. How can I fix this??

[trainman203]

When one track crosses another one without connecting switches, it's called a crossing. A crossover is two switches facing each other so a train to move from one parallel track to another parallel track.

All sectional tracks like EZ track have plastic frogs, that is where rails of opposite polarity actually cross one another.  Wheels that pick up power can't get power when on top of a frog. So the other wheels pick up power from whatever metal rail they're on top of.

Wheels and/or track can get dirty and compromise power pick up on the remaining wheels that aren't on the frog.  I believe you have either dirty wheels or dirty track. HO trains are not heavy like the old large, electric trains of generations ago. Those trains were no problem whatsoever with dirty wheels or track since they had so much weight on the rails.  Comparatively, HO trains are very light, and it doesn't take much to disrupt power distribution to the train. People don't understand that wheels and track need continual cleaning to operate properly.

Look up on the Internet Model Railroad locomotive wheel cleaning and track cleaning. There's more information there than you care to read. Pick a method that suits you and clean everything. You probably will get satisfactory operation after that.

[Geeper]

Hi Gramps... I use a 30 degree crossing on my HORR set-up. I've found the same issue and it's a 2 prong reality. [1] Track cleaning, very important for any crossing, switches (turnouts), etc. I use Labelle 105 track cleaner and white pads to clean the rails. I also have a track cleaning boxcar and put a touch of 105 on its pad and run it at medium-low speed for an hour on the entire rail system. [2] The locomotives themselves... watch each loco go over the crossing at slow "yard" speed and watch their headlight. If it blinks or dims (and the rails are clean) it means that loco either has dirty wheels or the electrical connection on one or more wheels is failing or intermittent.

On my system I just ran 3 switchers and a Geep... and checked the crossing. Geep and two switchers ran slowly forward and reverse (both directions) without any hesitation or any headlight flicker. One switcher had a slight headlight flicker as lead truck crossed the frog, meaning the rear truck has an electrical connection problem or dirty wheels.
Keep smiling...

[jward]

I am wondering why your cars are uncoupling when the slack runs in as your locomotive hesitates. That sounds like an issue the old horn hook couplers had, but it shouldn't be happening with the newer knuckle couplers. What exactly are you running that you are having trouble with?

[Terry Toenges]

I've had issues with some crossings where they will cause the wheels to raise. I had to file down the plastic. It's possible that there is slop in couplers and the wheel raising causes disconnects? Do your couplers line up correctly when they are on flat track? I don't know if this is your case.

[trainman203]

That problem is found in Bachmann's  track switches, too.  I've had to lower the tops of frogs on the majority of my Bachmann switches. The train will get on top of it and balance and break contact with the rails on either side, causing in aggravating stall until you fix it.

[Geeper]

Hi Trainman... How do you "gauge plastic frogs" to ensure they don't interfere with Loco and car wheels? You have just confirmed what I was thinking. I have had rail-car derailment occur on "one" of my turnout switches. First I thought it was a truck or coupler issue... but they function OK on other identical turnouts. I need to inspect all my frogs for this problem. 

[trainman203]

The only switch frogs I have had problems with on my way layout are are the metal ones on the Bachmann number five switches.  They were almost always a hair higher than the adjacent rail.  Enough to make the engine sit on top and balancing, not touching the rail on either side and usually stalling. 

Getting the height of these frogs down is a messy deal any way you look at it.  I very carefully grind them down with a grinder tip in a Dremel tool. You have to be extremely careful to not cut dips in the frog, which I have done a couple of times. There's no real way to gauge this work that I can think of. Maybe someone has an idea.

The switches I have plastic frogs with are atlas products.  The height of these for all of them never been a problem.  However, on a couple of number 4's  in the yard, the little pointy tip on the trailing side of the frog tended to snag the drivers on my decapods, which are really long wheelbase engines to begin with, and remarkably get through these number 4's with not much other problem.

On these frogs, I have gently moved the offending frog point with non-serrated needle-nose pliers very slightly over out-of-the-way toward the outside curve side. I emphasize "very" and "gently."  That seemed to do the job just fine.

[Geeper]

Hi Trainman; I only have Bachmann plastic frogs...
I understand "too high" frogs need to be reduced.
Q:What is proper frog height???
A:[1] Same exact height as the adjacent rails.
A:[2] Slightly lower than adjacent rails.
Hmmmmm... same or lower...Your thoughts please...
Have a great day, and keep smiling... 

[Len]

I use some 1000 grit emery cloth wrapped around a square piece of basswood to level off high frogs. I use a piece long enough for bare basswood to ride on the adjacent rails so I don't take the frog down too far.

Len

[Geeper]

Hi Len; So your answer is #1 plastic frogs should be "exact same height" as the rail tops.
I do like your solution with emery cloth over wood. Thanks.

[Terry Toenges]

It occurs to me that maybe the coupler glad hands are the culprit if any are hanging to low.

[trainman203]

Same height as adjacent.  Long wheelbase drivers will sag into the hole and raise the other end of the wheelbase off the rail, causing the same loss of contact as if the frog is too high.

Even if not sagging enough to do that, a sag in a frog will make rolling cars hop up-and-down, looking ridiculous and not very realistic.  I know, I've done it, and had to replace the switch, a very expensive education in several dimensions.

The only Bachmann switches that don't have have metal frogs are the very sharp, less than no. 4 ones intended to fit into an 18 inch radius curve. They are almost as sharp as street car track curves. I got rid of all of mine on the main layout quite a while back and went to no.6 switches. I still have a couple on a very small layout at our other house and wish I could get rid of them but they're only thing that work in the small place they are.

[Geeper]

Hi Terry; Good point, but I'm coupler crazy and HO gauge all couplers for proper tuning. I even have a 'light' colored spot on my layout that allows for perfect "visual" coupler checking as they slowly roll past it. Any coupler too high or low really is noticeable. Then I remove the "out of spec" rail-car and deal with it.

Hi Trainman; After Len's note I decided to check some frogs... and realized too low is a nasty problem, as is too high.
Light-bulb in my head went ON... Doesn't happen often, as my 2-3 functioning brain cells sit in the corner buried in sawdust and peanuts shells.
Long wheel base isn't a problem with my switchers and Geeps, running 18R curves on my inner oval, and 22R curves on outer oval. I'll check frog sharpness with magnify glass and LED headlamp. I only have #4s as spur turnouts. One turnout is a problem child and might be a frog alignment issue... Thanks for your thoughts.

[Hammond Gramps]

to everyone trying to help, thanks,
First, trains and track are all new so there should not be any dirt on the wheels or track.
Second, this happening to all 8 of my engines doesn't matter what wheel configuration.
So what's next??