Bachmann Steam Locomotives

llimhoff · September 29, 2016, 09:03:43 AM

What is the difference between the Bachmann Bumble Bees 83195 engine #345; 91602 engine # 178, and engine # 177??? Thanks

BillBrakeman · September 29, 2016, 05:31:52 PM

For starters:
#83195 is a model of a Baldwin C-19 4-8-0 engine and is scaled 1:20.3.
#91602 is a model of a 4-6-0 locomotive and is scaled 1"representing 22.5". This model is much smaller than the C-19 and also much less sophisticated.

Bill

Kevin Strong · September 30, 2016, 02:01:11 PM

Actually, the 1:22.5 4-6-0 model is not physically all that much smaller than the 1:20.3 C-19. It's a smaller model of a larger locomotive, so the two end up being something of a wash visually. Bachmann's 4-6-0 fits in pretty well with their larger 1:20 offerings as is, though purists would likely add a slightly wider cab and taller smokestack.

If the 4-6-0 is the "Anniversary" version of the 4-6-0, then the detail on it will be rather high. If it's one of the older versions with plastic details, then it's a little less sophisticated. The C-19 is arguably one of the best locos in large scale, both in terms of performance and detailing.

Later,

K

llimhoff · October 01, 2016, 11:42:40 AM

Thanks for the reply. What I'm looking for is the difference in electronic sophistication. The 83195 is too large for my ceiling layout so I need the narrow gauge
but I can't find out what the Bachmann Big Hauler locomotives have in the way of adaptability to battery run or eventual DCC hookup. I can't find info on the
capabilities the Big Hauler variety.

Loco Bill Canelos · October 01, 2016, 12:59:53 PM

Hi, llimhoff
For your purposes, the Anniversary Edition 4-6-0 (91602)would seem to be perfect. They are the same as the Big Hauler 4-6-0, but with metal siderods and metal casting details, metal gears and the new front truck. They are very adaptable to battery power and radio control(How to convert to battery and radio control article was in Garden Railways magazine awhile back. It was an article I wrote, but I can't remember the date) and they have been converted to run DCC as well. If the higher level of detail is not important to you, then A BH version would be OK as long as you get one with the smooth running durable version 5 chassis.They are not as adaptable to conversion to battery/rc as the Anniversary version, but can be done with a lot more work. See at the end of this post an explanation of the chassis versions. I am not sure I got all the 4-6-0's in the list below, but I am not in the most alert mode this morning.

Here is a list of the Anniversary 4-6-0's with the version 5 chassis(Aniversary 4-6-0's have an operating rear headlight if the prototype was so eqqupped:
81088   D&RGW   178   2005   ~ Loco   4-6-0, 10th aniv, Denver & Rio Grande Western
81092   PRR   9660   2002   ~ Loco   4-6-0, 10th aniv, Pennsylvania Ver 5
81093   EBT   10   2002   ~ Loco   4-6-0, 10th aniv, East Broad Top Ver 5
81094   RGS   25   2002   ~ Loco   4-6-0, 10th aniv, Rio Grande Southern Ver 5
81095   SPC   21   2000   ~ Loco   4-6-0, 10tn aniv, South Pacific Coast Ver 5
81096   WP&Y   10   2000   ~ Loco   4-6-0, 10th aniv, White Pass & Yukon Ver 5
81097   D&RG   12   2000   ~ Loco   4-6-0, 10th aniv, Denver & Rio Grande Ver 5
81098   ET&WNC   12   2000   ~ Loco   4-6-0, 10th aniv, ET&WNC Ver 5
81099   None   None   2000   ~ Loco   4-6-0, 10th aniv, painted unlettered Ver 5
90047SL   NP&S   1225   2004   ~ Loco   4-6-0, 10th aniv, North Pole & Southern Ver 5   P         Bach & Boscov   Set Loco   Sold only in Set 90047
90051SL   NP&S   205   2005   ~ Loco   4-6-0, 10th aniv, North Pole & Southern Ver 5            Sam's Club Set   Set Loco   Sold only in Set 90051   North Star Express
90054SL   NP&S   12   2006   ~ Loco   4-6-0, 10th aniv, North Pole & Southern Ver 5            Sam's Club Set   Set Loco   Sold only in Set 90054   Holiday Special
90059SL   WP&Y   14   2007   ~ Loco   4-6-0, 10th aniv, White Pass & Yukon Ver 5            S   Set Loco   only in 90059

Here is a list of the Anniversary 4-6-0's with the version 6 chassis(metal gears, new front truck) otherwise the same as above:
91602   D&RGW   178   2011   ~ Loco   4-6-0 Annie Denver & Rio Grande Western
91603   RGS   25   2011   ~ Loco   4-6-0 Annie Rio Grande Southern
91604   SPC   22   2011   ~ Loco   4-6-0 Annie South Pacific Coast
91605   D&RG   10   2011   ~ Loco   4-6-0 Annie Denver & Rio Grande Ver 6
91606   ET&WNC   11   2011   ~ Loco   4-6-0 Annie Denver & Rio Grande Western
91607   none   none   2011   ~ Loco   4-6-0 Annie painted unlettered Black
91608   D&RGW   168   2016   ~ Loco   4-6-0 Annie Bumble Bee
91609   None   None   2016   ~ Loco   4-6-0 Annie painted unlettered Black

Here is a list of the Big Hauler 4-6-0's (only those produced in 2000 or after have the version 5 chassis) SL means set locomotive(some were available separately) Big Hauler 4-6-0's do not have an operating rear headlight:

91202   ATSF   49   1989   ~ Loco   4-6-0, ATSF   P         red
91242   RGS   25   1989   ~ Loco   4-6-0, Rio Grande Southern   P
91243   B&O   1332   1989   ~ Loco   4-6-0, B&O Royal Blue   P
90018SL   NSX   7   1993   ~ Loco   4-6-0, North Star Express   P      X      Set Loco   Set 90018
90020SL   EKJX   49   1993   ~ Loco   4-6-0, Emmett Kelly Circus   P      C      $140.00    Set 90020
90022SL   D&RGW   12?   1994   ~ Loco   4-6-0, Denver & Rio Grande               $140.00    Set 90022
90023SL   NP&S   25   1995   ~ Loco   4-6-0, North Pole & Southern   P      X      Set Loco   Set 90023
90024SL   PRR   9670   1995   ~ Loco   4-6-0, PRR               $120.00    Set 90024
90025SL   D&RGW   177   1995   ~ Loco   4-6-0, Denver & Rio Grande   P         Bumble Bee   $140.00    Set 90025
90026SL   UP   12   1996   ~ Loco   4-6-0, Union Pacific   P             $140.00    Set 90026
90027SL   SOU   8254   1996   ~ Loco   4-6-0, Southern   P            $140.00    Set 90027
90028SL   CNJ   833   1997   ~ Loco   4-6-0, Central of New Jersey   P            $240.00    Set 90028
90031SL   GN   948   1999   ~ Loco   4-6-0, Great Northern   P            Set Loco   Only in set 90031
90033SL   ET&WNC   12   1999   ~ Loco   4-6-0, Tweetsie Railroad   p            $140.00    Set 90033
90034SL   D&RGW   14   1994   ~ Loco   4-6-0, Denver & Rio Grande   P            $140.00    Set 90034
90035SL   V&T   25   1999   ~ Loco   4-6-0, Virginia & Truckee, black, straight stack    P         coal load   $140.00    Set 90035
90036SL   PE   1001   2000   ~ Loco   4-6-0, Polar Express   P      X   only in set   $140.00    Set 90036
90037SL   NP&S   12   1997   ~ Loco   4-6-0, North Pole & Southern   P      X       Set Loco   Set 90037
90038SL   CRR   12   2000   ~ Loco   4-6-0, Chattanooga Rail Road               Set Loco   CostCo Only in set 90038
90048SL   ET&WNC   14   2004   ~ Loco   4-6-0, East Tenn & Western North Carol   p            $140.00    Set 90048
90055SL   ATSF   49   2006   ~ Loco   4-6-0, ATSF            only in set   none   Set 90055
90056SL   GVTC   5   2006   ~ Loco   4-6-0, Glenbrook Valley Transportation Co.               Set Loco   Only in Set 90056
90057SL   D&S   178   2006   ~ Loco   4-6-0 Durango & Silverton               Set Loco   Only in Set 90057
90058SL   D&S   179   2006   ~ Loco   4-6-0 Durango & Silverton               Set Loco   Only in set 90058
90060SL   OSHX   75   2006   ~ Loco   4-6-0, Ltd Edition Silverton Flyer OSH   P         Bumble bee   Set Loco   Set 90060 Orchard Supply Hardware 75th Anniversary set
90064SL   OSHX   14   2007   ~ Loco   4-6-0, Orchard Supply Hardware            Black & Green   Set Loco   Only in set 90064
90083SL   RBBX   12   2012   ~ Loco   4-6-0 , Ringling Bros. and Barnum & Bailey         C   White & Blue   Set Loco   Only in Set 90083
90085SL   EBT   10   1996   ~ Loco   4-6-0, East Broad Top   p            $140.00    Set 90085
90086SL   NYC&HR   948   1996?   ~ Loco   4-6-0, Wm. K. Vanderbilt   p         Fast Mail   $140.00    Set 90086
90088SL   RDG   2005   2000   ~ Loco   4-6-0, Reading   P            $140.00    Set 90088
90090SL   V&T   26   1997   ~ Loco   4-6-0, Virginia & Truckee   P         Wood burner    $140.00    Set 90090
90091SL   ATSF   51   1996?   ~ Loco   4-6-0, Santa Fe   P         only in set   $140.00    Set 90091
90092SL   C&S   28   1995   ~ Loco   4-6-0, Colorado & Southern   p            $120.00    Set 90092
90094SL   CMStP&P   3   1994   ~ Loco   4-6-0, MILW   P            $120.00    Set 90094
90095SL   WP&Y   10   1993   ~ Loco   4-6-0, White Pass & Yukon   p            $140.00    Set 90095
90096SL   SPC   21   1993   ~ Loco   4-6-0, South Pacific Coast   P            $120.00    Set 90096
90097SL   PRR   9660   1992   ~ Loco   4-6-0, PRR   P            $120.00    Set 90097
90098SL   UP   25   1991?   ~ Loco   4-6-0, Union Pacific   P            $120.00    Set 90098

Bachmann Plus Big Haulers( these were 1992 upgrades the were integrated into the regular line in later year models):
31497   WP&Y   10   1992   ~ Loco   4-6-0 +, White Pass & Yukon            Bachmann Plus   $200.00    new worm gear drive, full valve gear & metal handrails            1992
31498   ET&WNC   12   1992   ~ Loco   4-6-0 +, ET & WNC            Bachmann Plus   $200.00    new worm gear drive, full valve gear & metal handrails            1992
31499   D&RG    12   1992   ~ Loco   4-6-0 +, Denver & Rio Grande   P         Bachmann Plus   $200.00    new worm gear drive, full valve gear & metal handrails            1992

Here is an explanation of the chassis versions:

Big Hauler 4-6-0 Chassis Version Identification by Bill Canelos                Copyright 1989-2016 by Bill Canelos All right reserved.
Version 1 1988-1990 Battery Powered R/C Units
Version 2 1990-1994 Smooth Bottom Cover You can turn drivers by hand and motor will turn
Version 3 1994-1998 Smooth Bottom Cover You cannot turn the drivers by hand
Version 4 1998-1999 Large wide hump dead center between the rear drivers on bottom cover
Version 5 2000-Pres 3/8th inch wide hump offset between the rear drivers and a plastic lubrication plug the size of a dime to the rear of the hump..
Version 6 2011-Pres New Chassis for Annie only, has metal gears and new front truck identifiable only by the new front truck
Note that the dates overlap and as of Feb 1, 2012 have not been fixed more precisely, but all new sets introduced in 1999 with the VHS instructions were version 5
These sets were 90032,33,34,35,and 37
All Big Hauler 4-6-0's manufactured after 2000 have the version 5 chassis, all new sets after 2000 have it as well.
As of Feb 2012 Sets still have version 5 chassis but all new Annies produced from late 2011 have the version 6 chassis it remains unclear if version 6 chassis will be included in sets

Have fun with your project.

Loco Bill

BillBrakeman · October 01, 2016, 02:14:33 PM

The dates of Bill C's articles are April and May of 2014.

Bill

llimhoff · October 01, 2016, 05:49:44 PM

Many THANKS once again to LocoBill. You always come to the rescue. I feel confident in buying the 91602. Thanks to Brakeman also for the dates of Loco Bills articles as I will probably need them.

BillBrakeman · October 02, 2016, 10:59:30 AM

Correction: The correct issues are the 2nd & 3rd issues of 2014. That would be April & June.

My Bad
Bill

Midwest Central · February 28, 2021, 09:42:46 PM

Quote from: Loco Bill Canelos on October 01, 2016, 12:59:53 PM
Hi, llimhoff
For your purposes, the Anniversary Edition 4-6-0 (91602)would seem to be perfect. They are the same as the Big Hauler 4-6-0, but with metal siderods and metal casting details, metal gears and the new front truck. They are very adaptable to battery power and radio control(How to convert to battery and radio control article was in Garden Railways magazine awhile back. It was an article I wrote, but I can't remember the date) and they have been converted to run DCC as well. If the higher level of detail is not important to you, then A BH version would be OK as long as you get one with the smooth running durable version 5 chassis.They are not as adaptable to conversion to battery/rc as the Anniversary version, but can be done with a lot more work. See at the end of this post an explanation of the chassis versions. I am not sure I got all the 4-6-0's in the list below, but I am not in the most alert mode this morning.

Here is a list of the Anniversary 4-6-0's with the version 5 chassis(Aniversary 4-6-0's have an operating rear headlight if the prototype was so eqqupped:
81088   D&RGW   178   2005   ~ Loco   4-6-0, 10th aniv, Denver & Rio Grande Western
81092   PRR   9660   2002   ~ Loco   4-6-0, 10th aniv, Pennsylvania Ver 5
81093   EBT   10   2002   ~ Loco   4-6-0, 10th aniv, East Broad Top Ver 5
81094   RGS   25   2002   ~ Loco   4-6-0, 10th aniv, Rio Grande Southern Ver 5
81095   SPC   21   2000   ~ Loco   4-6-0, 10tn aniv, South Pacific Coast Ver 5
81096   WP&Y   10   2000   ~ Loco   4-6-0, 10th aniv, White Pass & Yukon Ver 5
81097   D&RG   12   2000   ~ Loco   4-6-0, 10th aniv, Denver & Rio Grande Ver 5
81098   ET&WNC   12   2000   ~ Loco   4-6-0, 10th aniv, ET&WNC Ver 5
81099   None   None   2000   ~ Loco   4-6-0, 10th aniv, painted unlettered Ver 5
90047SL   NP&S   1225   2004   ~ Loco   4-6-0, 10th aniv, North Pole & Southern Ver 5   P         Bach & Boscov   Set Loco   Sold only in Set 90047
90051SL   NP&S   205   2005   ~ Loco   4-6-0, 10th aniv, North Pole & Southern Ver 5            Sam's Club Set   Set Loco   Sold only in Set 90051   North Star Express
90054SL   NP&S   12   2006   ~ Loco   4-6-0, 10th aniv, North Pole & Southern Ver 5            Sam's Club Set   Set Loco   Sold only in Set 90054   Holiday Special
90059SL   WP&Y   14   2007   ~ Loco   4-6-0, 10th aniv, White Pass & Yukon Ver 5            S   Set Loco   only in 90059

Here is a list of the Anniversary 4-6-0's with the version 6 chassis(metal gears, new front truck) otherwise the same as above:
91602   D&RGW   178   2011   ~ Loco   4-6-0 Annie Denver & Rio Grande Western
91603   RGS   25   2011   ~ Loco   4-6-0 Annie Rio Grande Southern
91604   SPC   22   2011   ~ Loco   4-6-0 Annie South Pacific Coast
91605   D&RG   10   2011   ~ Loco   4-6-0 Annie Denver & Rio Grande Ver 6
91606   ET&WNC   11   2011   ~ Loco   4-6-0 Annie Denver & Rio Grande Western
91607   none   none   2011   ~ Loco   4-6-0 Annie painted unlettered Black
91608   D&RGW   168   2016   ~ Loco   4-6-0 Annie Bumble Bee
91609   None   None   2016   ~ Loco   4-6-0 Annie painted unlettered Black

Here is a list of the Big Hauler 4-6-0's (only those produced in 2000 or after have the version 5 chassis) SL means set locomotive(some were available separately) Big Hauler 4-6-0's do not have an operating rear headlight:

91202   ATSF   49   1989   ~ Loco   4-6-0, ATSF   P         red
91242   RGS   25   1989   ~ Loco   4-6-0, Rio Grande Southern   P
91243   B&O   1332   1989   ~ Loco   4-6-0, B&O Royal Blue   P
90018SL   NSX   7   1993   ~ Loco   4-6-0, North Star Express   P      X      Set Loco   Set 90018
90020SL   EKJX   49   1993   ~ Loco   4-6-0, Emmett Kelly Circus   P      C      $140.00    Set 90020
90022SL   D&RGW   12?   1994   ~ Loco   4-6-0, Denver & Rio Grande               $140.00    Set 90022
90023SL   NP&S   25   1995   ~ Loco   4-6-0, North Pole & Southern   P      X      Set Loco   Set 90023
90024SL   PRR   9670   1995   ~ Loco   4-6-0, PRR               $120.00    Set 90024
90025SL   D&RGW   177   1995   ~ Loco   4-6-0, Denver & Rio Grande   P         Bumble Bee   $140.00    Set 90025
90026SL   UP   12   1996   ~ Loco   4-6-0, Union Pacific   P             $140.00    Set 90026
90027SL   SOU   8254   1996   ~ Loco   4-6-0, Southern   P            $140.00    Set 90027
90028SL   CNJ   833   1997   ~ Loco   4-6-0, Central of New Jersey   P            $240.00    Set 90028
90031SL   GN   948   1999   ~ Loco   4-6-0, Great Northern   P            Set Loco   Only in set 90031
90033SL   ET&WNC   12   1999   ~ Loco   4-6-0, Tweetsie Railroad   p            $140.00    Set 90033
90034SL   D&RGW   14   1994   ~ Loco   4-6-0, Denver & Rio Grande   P            $140.00    Set 90034
90035SL   V&T   25   1999   ~ Loco   4-6-0, Virginia & Truckee, black, straight stack    P         coal load   $140.00    Set 90035
90036SL   PE   1001   2000   ~ Loco   4-6-0, Polar Express   P      X   only in set   $140.00    Set 90036
90037SL   NP&S   12   1997   ~ Loco   4-6-0, North Pole & Southern   P      X       Set Loco   Set 90037
90038SL   CRR   12   2000   ~ Loco   4-6-0, Chattanooga Rail Road               Set Loco   CostCo Only in set 90038
90048SL   ET&WNC   14   2004   ~ Loco   4-6-0, East Tenn & Western North Carol   p            $140.00    Set 90048
90055SL   ATSF   49   2006   ~ Loco   4-6-0, ATSF            only in set   none   Set 90055
90056SL   GVTC   5   2006   ~ Loco   4-6-0, Glenbrook Valley Transportation Co.               Set Loco   Only in Set 90056
90057SL   D&S   178   2006   ~ Loco   4-6-0 Durango & Silverton               Set Loco   Only in Set 90057
90058SL   D&S   179   2006   ~ Loco   4-6-0 Durango & Silverton               Set Loco   Only in set 90058
90060SL   OSHX   75   2006   ~ Loco   4-6-0, Ltd Edition Silverton Flyer OSH   P         Bumble bee   Set Loco   Set 90060 Orchard Supply Hardware 75th Anniversary set
90064SL   OSHX   14   2007   ~ Loco   4-6-0, Orchard Supply Hardware            Black & Green   Set Loco   Only in set 90064
90083SL   RBBX   12   2012   ~ Loco   4-6-0 , Ringling Bros. and Barnum & Bailey         C   White & Blue   Set Loco   Only in Set 90083
90085SL   EBT   10   1996   ~ Loco   4-6-0, East Broad Top   p            $140.00    Set 90085
90086SL   NYC&HR   948   1996?   ~ Loco   4-6-0, Wm. K. Vanderbilt   p         Fast Mail   $140.00    Set 90086
90088SL   RDG   2005   2000   ~ Loco   4-6-0, Reading   P            $140.00    Set 90088
90090SL   V&T   26   1997   ~ Loco   4-6-0, Virginia & Truckee   P         Wood burner    $140.00    Set 90090
90091SL   ATSF   51   1996?   ~ Loco   4-6-0, Santa Fe   P         only in set   $140.00    Set 90091
90092SL   C&S   28   1995   ~ Loco   4-6-0, Colorado & Southern   p            $120.00    Set 90092
90094SL   CMStP&P   3   1994   ~ Loco   4-6-0, MILW   P            $120.00    Set 90094
90095SL   WP&Y   10   1993   ~ Loco   4-6-0, White Pass & Yukon   p            $140.00    Set 90095
90096SL   SPC   21   1993   ~ Loco   4-6-0, South Pacific Coast   P            $120.00    Set 90096
90097SL   PRR   9660   1992   ~ Loco   4-6-0, PRR   P            $120.00    Set 90097
90098SL   UP   25   1991?   ~ Loco   4-6-0, Union Pacific   P            $120.00    Set 90098

Bachmann Plus Big Haulers( these were 1992 upgrades the were integrated into the regular line in later year models):
31497   WP&Y   10   1992   ~ Loco   4-6-0 +, White Pass & Yukon            Bachmann Plus   $200.00    new worm gear drive, full valve gear & metal handrails            1992
31498   ET&WNC   12   1992   ~ Loco   4-6-0 +, ET & WNC            Bachmann Plus   $200.00    new worm gear drive, full valve gear & metal handrails            1992
31499   D&RG    12   1992   ~ Loco   4-6-0 +, Denver & Rio Grande   P         Bachmann Plus   $200.00    new worm gear drive, full valve gear & metal handrails            1992

Here is an explanation of the chassis versions:

Big Hauler 4-6-0 Chassis Version Identification by Bill Canelos                Copyright 1989-2016 by Bill Canelos All right reserved.
Version 1 1988-1990 Battery Powered R/C Units
Version 2 1990-1994 Smooth Bottom Cover You can turn drivers by hand and motor will turn
Version 3 1994-1998 Smooth Bottom Cover You cannot turn the drivers by hand
Version 4 1998-1999 Large wide hump dead center between the rear drivers on bottom cover
Version 5 2000-Pres 3/8th inch wide hump offset between the rear drivers and a plastic lubrication plug the size of a dime to the rear of the hump..
Version 6 2011-Pres New Chassis for Annie only, has metal gears and new front truck identifiable only by the new front truck
Note that the dates overlap and as of Feb 1, 2012 have not been fixed more precisely, but all new sets introduced in 1999 with the VHS instructions were version 5
These sets were 90032,33,34,35,and 37
All Big Hauler 4-6-0's manufactured after 2000 have the version 5 chassis, all new sets after 2000 have it as well.
As of Feb 2012 Sets still have version 5 chassis but all new Annies produced from late 2011 have the version 6 chassis it remains unclear if version 6 chassis will be included in sets

Have fun with your project.

Loco Bill

tedyarbrough · March 01, 2021, 06:36:19 PM

llimhoff,
The C-19, a 2-8-0, and the 4-6-0 are both models of narrow gauge locomotives. They are 1:20.3 and 1:22.5 respectively. The NEW 4-6-0 Bumblebee #91803 coming later this spring or early summer is slightly smaller than the C-19 and is same size as the Annie you listed as road numbers 178 & 177 but has the electronics of the C-19 locomotive. You simply lift our the coal load and there is a board that has slide switch for track or battery power and a plug and play board for sound or DCC. You might want to wait for this unless you find a good deal on the others (as they are currently out of production and sold out at most hobby shops). All are good locomotives as I have and run both, even together on the same layout.
Happy Rails To You,
Ted

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