electrically wired frogs

[richardm]

I just received two turnouts that the description states they have electrically wired frogs. Does that mean they are powered. If yes how do they handle the polarity change?

[jonathan]

It depends.  Are these Bachmann turnouts?  Many turnouts have the ability to have electrically wired frogs, but require the modeler to connect wiring to switch polarity.

Regards,

Jonathan

[richardm]

Both turnouts are Bachmann E-Z Command DCC models 44133 and 44131. The description about both of these turnouts is that the frogs are electrically wired.  However the instructions do not address that feature. I want to know what that statement means.

Thanks for responding.

Tom

[Gary Allen]

I'm new to this but I do have several turnouts including the 44131.  I'm guessing that the "frog" is that portion of the turnout that swivels back and forth to switch tracks.  I'm also guessing that "electrically wired" "frogs" means that they don't have to be manually switched back and forth.  There appears to be at least 2 types of electrically wired frogs: externally wired (via a switch and some wiring) and DCC controlled.  The 44131 is DCC controlled so no external wiring or switch required.  You should probably assign the turnout an address (1 - 9) and program it before first use.  Easy to do once connected to the track.  Program via DCC controller; instructions provided with turnout.  You don't have to do anything to the wiring within the turnout.

[jward]

Gary what you refer to are switch points. the Frog is the place where the rails cross, and it must be either insulated or electrically powered to switch polarity when the points are thrown.

[Gary Allen]

Jward, thanks for the education.  I appreciate it.  That must mean that the premise for this discussion is incorrect.  Richardm believes the 44131 turnout has a wired frog, but in reality, it is insulated.  I checked my turnout with a multi-meter and none of the conductive surfaces changed polarity in response to switching the turnout.  From your explanation and my examination, it appears that the frog is plastic.  Do you know why this small triangular section of the turnout is called a frog?

[Terry Toenges]

Turnout frog - The term frog is taken from the part of a horse's hoof it most closely resembles. I learned something new today.
EDIT - I forgot to put link related to the railroad frog. It's about halfway down under  "Frog (common crossing)" - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Railroad_switch

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frog_(horse_anatomy)

[jward]

Gary you are correct. Plastic frogs cannot be powered. You need a metal frog. I believe the #4, #5 and #6 switches have metal frogs.

[Gary Allen]

My #4 turnouts have plastic frogs.  My crossovers have metal frogs but appear to be insulated from both rails.

While we're on the subject of turnouts, I have had a lot of trouble with derailments when the train passes over the turnouts, mainly when the train enters at the "heel" (common track) of the turnout.  Especially if it departs the diverging (curved) end.  I've sent two back.  I bought them via Amazon so extremely easy to return.  I've purchased some re-railing tracks in hopes they will help.

I AM meticulous about making sure track-to-track connections are done properly.  Learned that the hard way.

I've also learned to avoid connecting adjacent curves oriented in an "S" fashion.  That really tends to cause derailment. 

[jward]

I handlay my own switches, and can engineer them so that picking the points doesn't happen. That is a problem with many commercially made switches. THe solution is one of two things. The name of the game is to "hide the point" that is, make sure that the wheel flanges cannot contact the blunt end of a switchpoint. The two things I mentioned earlier are:

1. File the running edge of the point so that the end is sharper. Don't give your wheel flanges any blunt edge to hang up on. The easiest way to do this is to block the point open so it can't move by inserting a match stick or object between the point and stock rail. Then run a file along the edge of the point, from about an inch away from the end of the point working towards the end. After a few passes you should notice the end of the point is much thinner. Test run a train through it, and if necessary repeat the process until you are satisfied.

2. If filing doesn't work, you can grip the stock rail just ahead of the poiint with needle nose pliers and give it a slight twist. You want to put a slight kink in the rail, just enough to guide the flanges away from the end of the switchpoint, but not enough to affect track guage.

A third option i use when building my own is not possible with commercially made switches. Prior to assembly of the switch, I file a recess in the stock rail for the points to nestle in. Works like a charm, and i can build a complete switch in about an hour that will perform better than any you can buy.

[Gary Allen]

Jward, sounds like you are an expert on this topic.  Since you fabricate your own turnouts, have you ever added a two-color LED that responds to the turnout position?  That would allow the operator to see the position of the turnout from across the room.  My old Lionel Super-O set had a red arrow that would rotate between two positions to indicate the turnout position.

[jward]

Adding a signal to indicate switch position is easy with analog powered switches. You merely add an Atlas Snap Relay wired in parallel to the switch motor so that it throws at the same time as the switch itself. The signal itself is wired on a seperate circuit via the contacts on the snap relay.

I have no real experience with DCC powered switches as i don't use them. Perhaps somebody else knows how to do what you want with DCC. I do know Digitrax has all the electronics needed to run a complete signal system off DCC but that is far more intricate than what you want to do.