Bachmann Thomas & Friends in 2021

[Chaz]

So similar to how Terencethetractor525 resurfaced his Stepney post, I figured I would resurface my thoughts on Sir Handel in addition to sharing ideas for rolling stock.  So here are my thoughts on future ideas for the narrow gauge range:


Engine-wise, there's really no reason for the next narrow gauge engine to not be Sir Handel.  He's got a great design going for him, he's a popular request, fills in a number gap between engines and offers a nice color contrast for the narrow gauge engines.  Hopefully Bachmann will include him in the range soon, even if they want to wait until Peter Sam is out I think Sir Handel would be all around their safest bet for the next narrow gauge engine to have strong sales after Peter Sam.  Read my more in-depth post on Sir Handel here if you want to hear more details on him:

https://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/board/index.php/topic,36575.msg269948.html#msg269948

With that out of the way, it's time to talk about rolling stock!  There's definitely a lot more worth talking about in this category as there is a lot to do, and more importantly I think everyone is in mutual agreement on Sir Handel being made next in narrow gauge.  

One thing I would really like to see are some new wagons, specifically coal or stone wagons as shown here:



I've stated this before but Bachmann could get really creative with this and offer different loads for these wagons and these would be really popular sellers and would be a huge improvement over the Peco wagon that was added to their range.

I also want to talk about a suggestion Mulfed100 made earlier regarding narrow gauge troublesome trucks.


Now originally I was thinking Bachmann would use their current slate wagons and slap a face on those and call it a day... which looking back now would look ridiculous as the slate wagons are so small that adding a face to them would look really odd to be frank.



That's why I'm going to suggest Bachmann actually invests in another slate wagon tooling for narrow gauge troublesome trucks and make them the same size as the ones used throughout the classic series.  Especially since the larger slate wagon tooling also appeared in full CGI alongside the smaller ones.  I know it may sound extremely redundant but I feel like it would actually really benefit Bachmann really well for two reasons:

1. While I still really like the slate wagons Bachmann is offering I'll admit once Bachmann UK used the same slate truck tooling in a three pack with the slate wagons weathered and in different liveries for around the same price as one Thomas one, I and many other Thomas fans felt short-changed.  Making the slate wagons bigger and more accurate to the model era would save Bachmann any frustration and hassle from the UK for reusing that tooling and keeping it "Thomas exclusive" if you will.

2. Troublesome trucks always sell really well from Bachmann, objectively their best sellers when it comes to rolling stock because fans don't just buy one of each troublesome truck, they typically buy a couple of each so they can create "troublesome trains" for engines to pull or to leave scattered out in the yard.  This would be no different for narrow gauge, as the sales for these will fly off shelves in a matter of seconds.

Like in HO, large, and N scale Bachmann should play it safe and announce two troublesome trucks by giving them names like "Narrow gauge troublesome truck #1" and "Narrow gauge troublesome truck #2" and maybe even introduce another slate wagon with no face as a bonus.

So what faces should they use?  Naturally I feel like the smaller scale ones from seasons 4 and 5 are a low hanging fruit, here are my two favorites:




I also liked the one I posted above as well, either of those three would be winners in my book.


And of course the brown brake van saved for last.  I know it's easy to assume that this may be a recolor but sitting back on it a little bit we don't have a definitive answer at this time regarding the toolings for the red and blue brake vans.  Either way I do hope a brown brake van can be pulled off at some point.  

So there you have it my thoughts on future suggestions for the narrow gauge range, but now I would really like to hear everyone else's thoughts:

1. Would you be interested in seeing Sir Handel or any of these pieces of rolling stock?  

2. Regarding rolling stock, how much would you be willing to buy of each (if any)?

3. Which faces would you like to see for narrow gauge troublesome trucks?

Probably my last in-depth suggestion post in a while but hopefully once Peter Sam is near completion/released we can see Bachmann jump on the opportunity to make Sir Handel and at least one of these rolling stock suggestions once the brake vans are out too.

[Mulfred100]

Firstly thank you Chaz for picking up on the Narrow Gague Troublesome truck idea. As for your questions. Firstly I would absolutely buy Sir Handel, trucks and brown breakvan In a heartbeat. I see no reason either why Sir Handel and a brown breakvan won't be introduced next. The hype around Sir Handel seems to be growing every day. As for the breakvan well its not only logical as its a popular item its practical too. Its a simple recolour that Bachmann can roll out after the red and blue ones. As for the Troublesome trucks I feel they would be a massive hit. The slate trucks that are currently released while being true to the basis sadly don't measure up for me being so small so I agree that just sticking a face on one would be a very bad move. Plus if I'm not mistaken the current slate trucks are the poorest sellers across the entire Thomas Narrow Gauge line. They are always in stock on various websites I've checked.
For me I would buy 2 maybe 3 Brown breakvans and depending on if Bachmann actually make a TV accurate model of the trucks even if its just 1 truck I'd buy 10 maybe 12 take the faces off some. Obviously I'd prefer to have different faces on these trucks but if Bachmann just released 1 truck with a face I would buy it but in an ideal world Bachmann would release 2 maybe 3 variants which I will show my top three faces.

Firstly I feel this is the most popular and recognised Narrow Gauge Troublesome Truck face mask used in the show. Its pretty iconic and appears in both series 4 and 5.

I feel like the surprised face also is a pretty popular choice especially for those who want to remake Peter Sam's accident

Lastly this little fella. I mean if this guy doesn't scream Troublesome then what does?

[TerencetheTractor525]

An enjoyable read, as always, Chaz. As for the questions:

1. I would definitely be interested in seeing Sir Handel, as well as all of the suggested rolling stock.



The only other piece of narrow gauge rolling stock that I would really like to see made in the future is the green open carriage. Given that it is an open carriage, it would bring some more diversity to the rolling stock line, while still remaining nostalgic as it has made multiple appearances in the classic model series.

2. I intend to purchase multiple narrow gauge open wagons and troublesome slate wagons, but only if Bachmann were to make new toolings for both, especially a new slate wagon tooling for the troublesome slate wagon that is bigger than the tooling that is currently in the line. As for the brown brake van, I would most likely purchase one.

3.


As for the faces of the narrow gauge troublesome trucks, I completely agree that the face shown above is the most iconic narrow gauge troublesome truck face, as it was used in very memorable narrow gauge episodes such as "Rusty Helps Peter Sam": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0HKZD7UImqI and "Snow": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lF9cuUu__YI.

I would love to see Bachmann nail this face perfectly, just as they did with the Spiteful Brake Van, which makes me wonder if the 3D printed version could help (It is the face in the middle): https://www.shapeways.com/product/HV98H88G8/ng-character-pack-1?optionId=68884941&li=shops



It is also #17 from this reference.

As for other faces, a surprised face (most notably the one on the left of the Shapeways 3-Pack) would also be a great choice, but I would be perfectly happy with any other face, as long as it is from the model era, and not the CGI era or a random sculpt.

These faces can really play a large factor on how well received the products are, as the Spiteful Brake Van most definitely showed. Thus, I look forward to seeing how the face for the HO Troublesome Truck #6 turns out as well, as I hope that a square model era face is considered for the model instead of a CGI one.

[GordonPacific04]

Sir Handel will be made next after peter Sam, no doubt in my mind. Of course I want Bachmann to make Duncan, but they gotta do the four little engines first in my eyes. And I wouldn't mind if they used the darker blue as used on the CGI render. Not sure how much of a popular opinion this is but I actually prefer the darker blue, but again, just my opinion.

I also think the troublesome truck idea is a great one. I've always hated how small Bachmann's slate trucks are so a new tooling would be nice.

[TrainCollector]

Okay little late to the party on this one so here's what I'd like to be announced in February 2021.

HO Scale:
Silver Spencer
Fish van
Open wagon with crates
Troublesome Truck #7 (utility van)

HO narrow gauge:
Sir Handle
Duke(long shot)

N scale:
Henry
Gordon
Express Coaches
Troublesome Truck #3
S.C.Ruffy

Large Scale
Mavis
Troublesome Truck #3
Fish van

This is just what I would like to see Bachmann make. I can tell you some of these predictions are bound to happen sooner or later. What those predictions are is up to you. We can talk it over.

[Elsbridge Productions]

I've been thinking a lot lately about the possibility of Bachmann eventually making a model of Duncan for the Narrow Gauge line, and I have been worried about what they might use as a basis for the model. Duncan has been through a lot of big changes in the TV series, not all of them good - so I wanted to collate my thoughts and share what I think would be the best way to make Bachmann Duncan a reality.

Series 4 Small Scale Model:
Duncan first appeared in the TV series in Series 4. He was based on the Talyllyn Railway's No. 6 'Douglas', though the model makers took some liberties of course. This original Duncan model remains a fan favourite - his faces and general proportions were aesthetically pleasing and have stayed fairly consistent until the CGI series. Personally I'd love to see this version used as a basis for a Bachmann Duncan. There is ample room in the boiler for the motor and electrics (unlike the CGI model, which I will detail later), this version of Duncan is beloved by practically all fans, and he is as close to his original Talyllyn Railway basis as a Duncan model ever got, which would entice some buyers who are looking to recreate the TR's Douglas or another Andrew-Barclay locomotive.

Series 5 Large Scale Model:
This model of Duncan was a bit odd. Some of his proportions changed when the model makers made larger scale models for this season, and his faces were remade to suit the larger size. These faces were not too noticeably different from his Series 4 faces, though I believe many would say they prefer the earlier faces. However, the model makers were clearly not happy with Duncan's proportions on this model, as they felt the need to redesign it for the very next series. Because this model was seen so briefly, it would be difficult (and make little sense) to use this model as a basis for a possible Bachmann model.

Series 6 Large Scale Model:
This was the remade version of the Large Scale model, which had much closer proportions to the original small scale model. I am generally not a fan of the large scale narrow gauge models, however Duncan is an exception. His new model managed to retain most of the charm of the original model, and also remained fairly close to Duncan's basis on the Talyllyn Railway; Douglas. There is still ample room for a motor inside the boiler, and the model had an open cab. The only other thing worth mentioning is that new faces were made for this large model in Series 6, in addition to the few made for Series 5. These newest faces were not as 'Duncan-like' as the previous ones, and while they were used for quite a long time, they were never the strongest aspect of that version's model.

CGI Series Model:
When the Thomas & Friends animation company 'Nitrogen Studios' planned on reintroducing the Narrow Gauge engines into the show, they visited the Talyllyn Railway in order to get accurate measurements of the real-life counterparts for all the Skarloey Railway engines. Because of this, most of the narrow gauge engines in the CGI series were now very accurate to how their counterparts looked in real life. However, one exception was Duncan. Duncan's basis 'Douglas' was away for an overhaul when Nitrogen came to scan the engines, and so when Duncan was eventually brought back into the show as well (after Arc Productions had taken over animation), the animators did not use Duncan's real life counterpart as a basis at all. As a result, Duncan's CGI model looks the least like Duncan or Douglas than any other version. Not only is he overall too small, but his boiler is undersized, his running board is the wrong colour, his lining is incorrect and yellow instead of black, along with several other small mistakes which add up to make the CGI model possibly the worst portrayal of the character seen on screen to date. This opinion is shared by most Thomas fans, and you can be sure that very few narrow gauge modellers will try using a Bachmann Duncan model as a basis for a real-life steam engine if the model looked like Duncan does in the CGI series. The only reason I could see for using this model as a basis would be because children may recognise him a bit more with his CGI face.

Other versions worth mentioning: The character of Duncan was of course first seen in the Railway Series books (where he was painted red). The illustrators of the books used the Talyllyn Railway's 'Douglas' as a close basis for the character, and there were very few liberties taken. I think its safe to say that the Series 4 modellers used the book illustrations as a basis for Duncan, though they evidently had to change a few things in order to accomodate the necessary electrics and eye mechanism. I believe that many people would be interested in using a possible Bachmann Duncan model as a starting point for recreating TR's Douglas or other similar Andrew-Barclay engines, and while it is true that none of Duncan's models are extremely close to the real-life 'Douglas', I think its safe to say that either the Series 4, 5, or 6 models are the closest in that regard.

My Recommendation
The way I see it, there are three groups of people who want slightly different things. The corporate voices at Mattel most likely want a version of Duncan who is current to the CGI series and most recognisable to children, with little regard for the history of the character's design. Then there are the real-life Narrow Gauge modellers, who would most likely be interested in buying a Bachmann Duncan to use as a starting point for making engines like the Talyllyn Railway's Douglas or other Andrew-Barclays, and Railway Series modellers who want a RWS-accurate Duncan model. Finally, there are TV series fans, who I believe generally agree that the CGI model is not up to scratch and would much prefer a model series era version of Duncan.
In my opinion, the best way for Bachmann to please the corporate voices at Mattel, as well as pleasing those who want to use a Bachmann Duncan to model other real-life engines, AND keep the TV series fans content, would be to use either the Series 4 or Series 6 model as a basis for Duncan's body (which is as close to his real-life counterpart as he ever got) while using the CGI era face, which would make Duncan more recognisable to the children who have now grown up with the CGI era of the show and keep Mattel reasonably happy.
Of course, the beauty of model railways is that everything is customisable, and I'm sure railway modellers of all sorts will enjoy modifying their Bachmann Duncan to suit whichever era or version they like, but for those who want nothing more than to buy an accurate toy of Duncan, this model-era/CGI-era hybrid seems the most appealing option in my eyes.

Thanks for taking the time to read this. I'd love to know other people's opinions on this, and I would really like Bachmann to produce the best version of Duncan they can, which is why I decided to get my thoughts down on paper for them to see.
I've attached a photo of the different models and their pros and cons, to better illustrate my argument. Hope that helps! Thanks again!

[Toad139]

I think Sir Handel is the clear choice for the next narrow gauge engine Bachmann should produce. Both Chaz and Elsbridge Productions bring up great points about the choices Bachmann has. I definitely think Sir Handel would stand out more due to his color alone, and his model will definitely do great with those who are looking to model engines from the Talyllyn Railway.

It is hard to say what Duncan will look like if he is made. I have heard that Bachmann got the measurements for their narrow gauge engines directly from their real life counterparts. I believe this to be true due to the amount of rivet detail on Skarloey that isn't present on his CG model in the television series. If this is the case, Duncan may have a lot of issues from his CGI model fixed. Although, issues regarding his livery will still likely be present, such as his gold lining and red running board. The worse case scenario is they do what they did with Rusty and just based it directly off the show. I can see them doing this because Duncan has always looked the least like his basis when compared to the other Skarloey Railway Steam Engines, even in the model series. His TVS design is much more simplistic, and they may decide to go with that because they don't want his design to stray from the show. I hope this isn't the case, but I guess we will have to wait and see if he ever does get made.

[Chaz]

Thanks for the strong feedback everyone.  I am glad that everyone mutually agrees Sir Handel should be made next in narrow gauge.

I forgot to add the green coach but that is also another addition I would like to see added in the range at some point.  Would look great, especially with a brown brake van too.  

I'm especially happy to see the strong feedback for the narrow gauge troublesome trucks.  Apart from the brown brake van, I feel like troublesome trucks in narrow gauge brake van would be the best option for the next rolling stock additions in narrow gauge and should take priority as far as new rolling stock toolings go.  

As for Duncan, as much as I would like to see him added at some point, I think it's inevitable they will go with the CG render as a reference if Oliver and Rusty are anything to go off of. Even though I was okay with Rusty (apart from scaling), Duncan's render is unfortunately a deal-breaker for me.  If they did go with an earlier model era design or even put in the effort to make Duncan resemble his basis with a CGI face then I would be more than open to buying Duncan but unfortunately as Bachmann's track record has shown, that likely won't be the case.  Personally the only engine I am anxious for is Sir Handel as my only other real interests in narrow gauge are the rolling stock suggestions mentioned earlier.  If they announce Sir Handel next and then Duncan some time after that, then it would be fair game as far as I'm concerned.

[TrainFan97]

The next Narrow Gauge engine from Bachmann has to be Sir Handel. Hopefully, when they eventually get to Duncan someday, Bachmann should be fully aware that none of us want Duncan based off his CGI render. Duncan needs to look as accurate to his basis as possible, with black lining (not gold), a white running board, and not red like in the CGI series. If Duncan is based off his CGI render, his sales will be very low, and could potentially bomb. 'Arry and Bert failed because their faces were bad, but that would be an easy fix if they ever get brought back. Duncan's tooling, however, would not be an easy fix. That's why Bachmann needs to pay attention to our posts, and make sure Duncan looks more accurate to his basis, if Mattel agrees.

For now, the number one priority for a Narrow Gauge engine is Sir Handel, while the biggest requests for Narrow Gauge rolling stock are the Brown Brake Van, the Green Open Carriage, and the Narrow Gauge Troublesome Trucks. Regarding the latter, Bachmann should definitely consider a new slate wagon tooling specifically for the Narrow Gauge Troublesome Trucks because the slate wagon tooling that's already there is much too small. Bachmann already made two Narrow Gauge coaches, both with completely different toolings. They can certainly make another slate wagon tooling. May need a different slate load as well.

[Falcon the 2nd]

Absolutely on board with Sir Handel as the next Narrow Gauge character. He's my personal favorite of the bunch and I would reserve him in an instant if announced at any point. All reasons shared by everyone else so far have been valid in all senses. Announcing him alongside the Brown Brake Van and a potential Green Open Carriage would make for a nice set of products themed after "A Bad Day For Sir Handel".

To reiterate myself again, I'm an old-fashioned fan of the show and I would be down for Duncan on the two conditions that he is announced after Sir Handel and the team goes with either the Series 4 or Series 6+ model. To my knowledge, Duncan was the last of the main Narrow Gauge characters introduced in the fourth season and I can see Bachmann following suit here. Both models mentioned have a fair share of accuracy to the original basis and viable referential material (Series 4 has its ruler photos and Series 6+ has been preserved at the Hara Model Railway Museum). Basing Duncan off one of these models would be a compromise of consistency, but to attain better sales for the long run, it'd absolutely be worth it. If Bachmann has measurements of the engines form their real-world counterparts, it'd definitely help too.

Can't say a whole lot about the Narrow Gauge Troublesome Truck myself, but I'd certainly be interested if it were based on an older carnation and had a bigger size than the existing slate trucks. The ones already on the market are too small for most peoples' tastes. Maybe there could be a faceless version of the Troublesome Truck's tooling to serve as a replacement, but I'm not sure if that would end up happening.

[TerencetheTractor525]

I am completely on board with supporting a Bachmann Duncan model that is not based on the CGI proportions as well. A Duncan model that is completely based on the CGI render would be a major let down in my books, and I do not intend to purchase the model if it turns out that way.

Even so, while Mattel may be concerned with how kids recognize each Bachmann model, I agree that the best compromise would be to use the proportions of one of the Duncan models from the model era when constructing the new tooling, but base the face on the CGI model. If Bachmann can make hybrid models of the Spiteful Brake Van and the narrow gauge carriages, then Bachmann can certainly make a hybrid model of Duncan too.

[TrainFan97]

Another good way for Bachmann to make Duncan would be to base him off his Season 4 Small Scale model, or Season 6-12 Large Scale model with a CGI face, since his model series design is arguably a lot better than his awful CGI render.

After Sir Handel gets announced, we can then vouch for Duncan or Luke. It might be better for Bachmann to make Duncan before Luke so we'd have all the original six Narrow Gauge engines (excluding Duke). The only reason Duke never returned after Season 4 was because his model was used to make Bertram, then as they were repainting the model back into Duke, it was never finished. Because Duke has yet to appear in full CGI, we may not see Bachmann make him anytime soon. Freddie and Mighty Mac also have yet to appear in full CGI. Freddie's siderod configuration might be a little complicated, while Mighty Mac would be two engines in one, costing at least twice as much to produce. First, we need Sir Handel, then Duncan, and then Luke. At least Luke is a CGI character who had a few starring roles.

[Mulfred100]

In regards to Duncan sadly I'm a sucker for him and I've said this.many times previously. As a content creator there is alot more I can do and would want to do with Duncan. I'd love him to be based off series 4 but I fully expect him to be based off the.CGI series however this is not a deal breaker for me. Its Duncan and I'll be happy to have him in the crew. But I fully support Sir Handel being next and hopefully that will give bachmann the time to get Duncan done right for everyone. In terms of rolling stock while I don't think this needs to be an immediate candidate for 2021 I do think this is a worthy suggestion for us to all consider for the future of the range

The Refresment coach
First and only apperance in series 7 the Refreshment shares its basis with the Red Coach. Its colourful, something I can see on display at trainshows and its just got that Bachmann vibe about.it. When you consider all the rolling stock recolours from HO and Large Scale, Bachmann love things like this. The only drawback I can see is the opening hatch but I'm sure it can be done if the right minds Work on it. Even if they have it in one fixed position.

Plus we are getting Peter Sam so this would be a nice bit of rolling stock for him to be displayed with. I realise that the Troublesome trucks, green coaches and brown breakvan will and rightly so are more important and will be more likely to be made first. But theres not really a great deal of rolling stock like this on the narrow guage railway and its just something I think could be a nice alternative for the future

[Angelob6660]

I would like a model accurate or series 4 version of Duncan. He became a favorite character over time with the help of the cgi. The problem is he's render completely ruins the appeal.

[TrainCollector]

Anyone want Gordon or Henry in N scale along with the express coaches? I think it's a good idea.