far back drive on 2-6-0

[Chatzi473]

has anyone move the last drive back on the 2-6-0 and how do you do it? Pics would help

[hminky]

The back axle is the geared one and can't be moved.

Harold

[scottychaos]

The back axle is the geared one and can't be moved.

Harold

never say "cant"!
sure it can be moved..
the question is how.

I dont have one of these engines, so I cant say for sure.
but I have cut apart a lot of frames and moved drivers around..
anything is possible.

The Finescale Railroader Modelers annual has a review on the Bachmann On30 forney, it says the forney CAN'T be regauged to On2..
that comes as a surprise to the guys who have already done it!

Scot

[hminky]

The back axle is the geared one and can't be moved.

Harold

never say "cant"!
sure it can be moved..
the question is how.

I dont have one of these engines, so I cant say for sure.
but I have cut apart a lot of frames and moved drivers around..
anything is possible.

The Finescale Railroader Modelers annual has a review on the Bachmann On30 forney, it says the forney CAN'T be regauged to On2..
that comes as a surprise to the guys who have already done it!

Scot

I will repeat in the context of the question the driver CAN'T be moved back using the original frame. I HAVE one.  Even a new frame due to the geometry of the motor and the gears prevents an "Uneven" mogul. It would be a whole locomotive rebuilding to acheive the "Uneven".



I am sure if the two foot locomotives are like the On30 4-4-0 they can't be requaged to two feet because of the offset gear on the drive axle. The wall of the frame of the 4-4-0 is only 1/16" at that point.

Harold

[C.S.R.R. Manager]

Maybe you could move the rear driver back by moving the motor, the frame, and the rear driver back at the same time.  Looking at the frame I have here from above, it looks like there is 5/8" of solid metal on the back of the frame that could be removed without affecting the worm drive or the gears.  Granted, I haven't taken the frame apart, to see if any moving parts would be affected.  Also, it would be major surgery, not just removing a big chunk of the metal weight, but adding to the front of the frame and reworking the rear of the frame for a new connection to the tender.  You would also lose some important weight in the process, which might affect tractive effort, so the new engine might not pull as many cars as before.

Actually, I'm working on ways to make a 4-6-0 out of a 2-6-0, and moving the whole frame back within the existing plastic body is one possible first step. 

I would start by taking the frame apart, to see how much internal clearance there really is, and also do some Photoshopping, to see what the result would look like. 

[hminky]

The "uneven " mogul "usually" has the the cab clear, the boiler stops about a foot into the cab. The Mogul mechanism will always be sticking too far back into the cab for an "uneven" mogul. The rear driver should almost go to the back of the cab.

The new 4-4-0 has possibilities of being made into an uneven mogul. It has the first driver geared and a wagon top boiler. The mechanisms has more possiblilities.

Harold

[scottychaos]

I will repeat in the context of the question the driver CAN'T be moved back using the original frame. I HAVE one.  Even a new frame due to the geometry of the motor and the gears prevents an "Uneven" mogul. It would be a whole locomotive rebuilding to acheive the "Uneven".


Harold

well no one ever said anything about keeping the original frame! 

you said

The back axle is the geared one and can't be moved.

obviously that is an untrue statement..
and you are also wrong about the "context of the question" because the original question did not specify keeping the original frame..

just trying to keep things realistic here..
"cant" is far too strong a word..
Im just calling it as I see it..

Scot

[scottychaos]

Here is a page that has some photos of the mogul with the boiler off, showing the motor in relation to the drivers:

http://www.pacificcoastairlinerr.com/mogul_tsunami/page2.html

Looks like it would be fairly simple to cut the frame between the 2nd and 3rd drivers, move the whole rear driver assembly backwards, with the motor attached, then rebuild the resulting gap in the frame..
new longer siderods, a few mods to the boiler and cab placement, and you are back in business..
a challenging modification sure, but not beyond the ability of the average modeler.

The only major concern I can see is the boiler might also have to be elongated and the cab moved backward too..otherwise the motor assembly will stick out the back of the cab..(unless part of that metal weight can be cut away..but it probably cant because the gear is in there.)
but if you are willing to cut and paste the frame, adding a bit of new boiler is a piece of cake in comparison.

The whole loco will end up longer..you will increase the frame length by the length of the gap,(however far you move that driver back), then also increase the boiler length by the same distance..the cab ends up in the same relation to the rear driver that it was originally.

Scot

[hminky]

Here is how I would build an "uneven" mogul.

1. Buy a 4-4-0

2. Buy a Bowser Northern Frame and 3 drivers. It can be made to this configuration.



That is a porter mechanism but mill off about .040 from the bottom of the 4-4-0 motor mount and attach it to the frame. Attach the front of the 4-4-0 frame to the Bowser frame. Move the 4-4-0 boiler back on the frame and lengthen. Move the boiler face back up into the cab.

3. Make new side rods



That is how it would look with the Mogul boiler. Sorry the pictures aren't bigger.

Harold

[C.S.R.R. Manager]

Harold, when do you sleep?  I do agree, using a new frame might be easier than cutting the end off of the Bachmann frame.  And I do wonder how long it will be before someone converts the new 4-4-0 into a small Mogul.

[scottychaos]

The whole loco will end up longer..you will increase the frame length by the length of the gap,(however far you move that driver back), then also increase the boiler length by the same distance..the cab ends up in the same relation to the rear driver that it was originally.

Scot

yes, im replying to myself!
because I was wrong..

I take that bit back..
thats no good.
you dont want to increase the boiler length and move the cab back..
that will throw off the proportions.
(I have a Bachmann Fn3 Mogul sitting on a shelf next to me, I didnt even bother to look at it!  )

The rear driver should be moved back so that the rear driver sits directly under the cab..so you do want to move the driver back without changing the boiler or cab position.

thats a problem for the gear housing..as others have said, it will stick too far out the back of the cab.

although maybe not..

it will be very close, but it might not actually stick out the end of the cab..
a close look at the photos shows the gear housing extends less than one driver length beyond the rear driver..
so if you move the driver back so that the rear of the metal gear housing is even with the rear cab wall, that should put the driver pretty close to the center of the cab...and having the firebox door right up even with the rear cab wall, so that the fireman is *outside* the cab as he shovels, is actually prototypical for some locomotives..it was somewhat common.

Scot

[Dusten Barefoot]

Is this what you are trying to go for?