Question to the masses

[Atlantic Central]

Bob,

A few thoughts -

I follow this board fairly closely (It is one of only two I ever read), and this has been discussed quite a bit in the recent and distant past.

I have noticed no great out cry for any more large locos, and certainly not the ones that are already on the market. Sure, there is the occasional post from some new poster, usually a younger person, saying "Is Bachmann going to make a Big Boy" because they are new and not familiar with what is available from other brands, and, a few people are still wanting their "favorite" that has not been made yet.

But mostly the requests have been for small and medium sized locos and just because Bachmann makes a PRR K4, does not mean the "Pacific" has been covered. As the single most popular passenger power in North America, the different styles/versions of Pacifics yet to be modeled is endless.

The locos you listed are nice for small layouts, but in the big picture of steam loco history they do not represent a broad appeal.

The following locos would make more sense and sell better to a larger number of modelers:

More DIFFERENT Mikado's - there are only a few USRA examples on the market and this was the 4th most plentiful wheel arrangement in the world. And since most had small drivers (63" was most common), they are only slighly bigger than a 2-8-0 and are well suited to small layouts.

More DIFFERENT Pacific's - there are only a few unique examples (too many K4's)on the market and this was the most plentiful passenger wheel arrangement.

Modern 10 Wheelers - also very popular with many railroads - and lasted to the end of steam - 3rd most plentiful wheel arrangement!

Atlantics - The passeger race horses of the 20's and 30's - many of which also lasted to near the end.

More DIFFERENT 2-8-0's - The single most popular wheel arrangement ever - and there are only one or two model versions out there?

As to your choices - the right Mogul would do OK, they where reasonably popular, but except for a few isolated exceptions, Prairie's were rare and short lived except for small branch lines. The 4-8-0 is a really rare bird, only about 600 ever made (compared to 17,000 Ten Wheelers or 33,000 2-8-0's) and only used by a few roads.

So, as I repeat a lot of this for the 364th time, everyone should know what locos I am wanting to see in the future.

Sheldon

[Atlantic Central]

Bob,

A quick look through a data base of steam locos in North America shows only the following roads with 4-8-0's

NP, GN, N&W, NYC, SP

And as I said, only about 600 copies of a designs in that wheel arrangement. That's not a wide appeal by any means.

Sheldon

[Woody Elmore]

Ram - the MDC 2-6-2 is a different model from their 0-6-0 switcher - it has bigger diameter drivers and the frame is longer. Both are based on ATSF prototypes. Just remember that the originals came out after WWII so the tooling is not up to today's standards.

If you take the time to install a can motor the MDC engines run quite well.

[VTBob]

to AC:

as you say : ""A quick look through a data base of steam locos in North America shows only the following roads with 4-8-0's

NP, GN, N&W, NYC, SP"

West to East coast. Covers a vast area.

Different 2-8-2, or 4-6-2, aren't likely because they also "only pertain to a specific group of modellers" Take a usra & modify?

the 2-8-0 has been done & redone by many manufacturers. They aren't going to make a specific road name because, once again, "they also only pertain to a specific group of modellers"

I would like to see an Atlantic, maybe CNJ or Erie's 4-4-2, because (I think) only bowser & MDC makes these.

Why oppose a remake of the 2-6-2? Or how about a Heisler? They have the Shay & the Climax, why not the 3rd in line? After all, Rivarossi made the last plastic Heisler, & those are seriously hard to find now.

I agree with a Mogul (2-6-0) tho. I could use alot of those. Full vavle gear would be nice too.

As for the 4-8-0; You essentially could slap a UP, or generic name on the side & it'd still sell. Who makes a current 4-8-0 nowadays?

Just my thoughts,
Bob

[Atlantic Central]

Bob,

Here's what everybody misses about Pacifics and Mikados - Even though road specific details where different, many shared the same frame/driver/piston designs, and in many cases boilers as well, from the major builders.

Model manufacturers could easily build 5,6 or more different prototype locos of each wheel arrangement on the same frames with no more difficulty or expense than what Bachmann did with the C&O/USRA Heavy Mountain.

In many, many cases different cabs, tenders, pilots, and applied details would be all that is needed to make a number of different locos, and they would all be reasonably correct. Certainly as correct as many models we are buying right now!

4-8-0's may have been spread out around the country, but there where very few of them. I have made this same point about all the over produced Northerns. While Northerns may well have been the ultimate evolution of steam power, they where in fact very rare - only about 750 ever built.

I model a freelanced class I, east coast railroad set in 1954, none of the locos you mentioned would fit my theme. No major east coast road owned a Pairie, at any time in history, and most of those other wheel arrangements where gone from major east coast lines by 1930 - the N&W 4-8-0's being the one exception.

So I would not buy any. But most of the locos I listed where built between 1900 and 1930 and stayed in wide spread use until the end of steam, or at least until the mid/late 40's.

That gives them wide appeal. And, there are more freelance modelers out there than you think who would by, lets say, undecorated, road specific models like a B&O P7 Pacific and letter it to their road. but their not going to do that with PRR prototypes that scream PRR at you with their belpare fireboxes and other unique features.

Example - I would by SP prototype Pacifics or Mikados in a hot minute and letter them to my road - while they do have some unique features they do "scream" at you like K4's, N&W "J"'s, UP FEF's, Big Boy's, etc.

And, is was Pacifics, Atlantics, Mikados, Consolidations, and Ten Wheelers that did the work a day tasks of American Railroading from the teens to the end of steam. Their sheer numbers and scrap dates show this to be true.

Sheldon

[lanny]

Sheldon,

I certainly agree with your reasoning on the need for more Mikados and Pacifics as well as others you mentioned in your post. I've often wondered why mfg. seem so hesitant to get more Mikados on the market ... and I mean by this 'more Mikados that are not USRA style'. Seems like a huge segment of prototype steam is being neglected.

I know there is a lot of discussion as to 'why' and I don't want to add to the discussion ... but it would be so nice to see some truly 'new' prototype steam being offered by mfgs.

lanny

[SteamGene]

Lannt and Sheldon, I have your backs.  I have a book with the title reading something like THE MIKADO - STEAM'S GP9.  Fact is, it's true.
  Sheldon mentioned the USRA/C&O heavy Mountain.  But the USRA heavy Mountains delivered to the C&O looked exactly like those delivered to the N&W or the FEC,  But the N&W and C&O USRA heavy Mountains looked vastly different later on.
Gene

[andrechapelon]

I model a freelanced class I, east coast railroad set in 1954, none of the locos you mentioned would fit my theme. No major east coast road owned a Pairie, at any time in history

Say what? Isn't the Pennsy an East Coast railroad? http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com/images/prr7453.jpg

The Lake Shore & Michigan Southern became part of NYC. http://tinyurl.com/2zjxca

It's not a good idea to make a sweeping generaliztion like that. Someone is likely to prove you wrong.

Andre

[TonyD]

wow this is a touchy subject huh? Might be an easy fix here, if engineering wants to go back to the drawing board for 10 minutes....take a Spectrum decapod- talk about a small proto production eh? Remove the front set of drivers, replace with a 4 wheel pilot truck. Got your mastadon don't ya? B&M and B&A had 12wheelers working out of Boston harbor, can't go much further east without getting wet...Worldwide, 4-8-0's ruled for many many years-I have pics of ex- South African Rwy 8th class in steam- less than 20 years ago. Probably still working at that same mine today. A mogul with valve gear-yes! again, used from Maine to Mexico, details that can be changed without ruining the boiler?  how about a kit where a modeler can make it a- 2-6-0 or 2-6-2, with or without wal'sv.g. didn't mdc had a system like that in the 70's? Just make something that runs good! Specifics can work against ya, the awesome spectrum 8 wheeler has dome positions and boiler taper that I just don't like, but don't have the heart to chop up.... too bad they didn't go with a cookie cutter early Schenectady than the Ricmond design, oh well, maybe next time-hay- just do the Jupiter and 119 in spectrum quality! That's my wish list....and 2 cents.....
I hope Santa is nice to each and everyone!!!
tony