Road numbers on E60s???

[barlojo1]

Hi All, yesterday I purchased a Bachmann Amtrak E60CP #976 item 65506 in PH II paint at a train show. Is 976 a valid number for this model?

My research indicates there were 26 E60's numbered 950 to 975, that's 26 units.

I also saw a Bachmann E60CP #978 item 65507 in the PH III paint at the same show.

Am I missing something or did Bachmann goof?

John B

[ACY]

Hi All, yesterday I purchased a Bachmann Amtrak E60CP #976 item 65506 in PH II paint at a train show. Is 976 a valid number for this model?
My research indicates there were 26 E60's numbered 950 to 975, that's 26 units.
I also saw a Bachmann E60CP #978 item 65507 in the PH III paint at the same show.
Am I missing something or did Bachmann goof?

Between 86 and 88, all remaining Amtrak E60CPs were rebuilt and renumbered and they had their steam generators removed and a couple had HEP fitted. The locomotives were regeared for a maximum speed of 90. When the E60s returned to service, they were used on heavy, long-distance trains and in push–pull service in the late 80's.
#976 and #978 were probably actual numbers but not sure what phase livery they would be in.

[barlojo1]

Thanks for the input ACY. I am still looking for a picture to positively vet these numbers before I change them on the models. I saw a picture of 975 in phase III paint, one of a few supposedly.

Any help would be appreciated.

[ACY]

Thanks for the input ACY. I am still looking for a picture to positively vet these numbers before I change them on the models. I saw a picture of 975 in phase III paint, one of a few supposedly.
Any help would be appreciated.

Sorry don't have any photos of those numbers in particular, what I said above is all I know unfortunately I have no other information.
All I can do is guess that #976 was probably never in Phase II livery as it would have been a renumbered unit, unless of course they were not repainted when they were rebuilt and renumbered in the late 80's. I have seen photos of 971, 972, 973, 974 & 975.
Update I just found a photo of two rebuilt/renumbered units and I can make out the first two numbers on each unit as 98X (the X is some other digit). However I can safely say the renumbered units are not Phase II, they are not Phase IV either, they look like a variant of Phase III.

[ElectricFan]

Hi:

Unfortunately the numbers end at 975.

According to Volume 3 of "Amtrak Power In Color", E60s came in two batches. 950 - 955 were classified as E60CP and were steam generator equipped, and numbers 956 - 975 were classified as E60CH and were Head End Power (HEP) equipped.  

Eleven E60s were rebuilt into motor-alternator locomotives (not sure what that means) and were renumbered 600-610.  Their headlight and numberboard arrangements are completely different from the original E60s.

Locos 950 and 953 were renumbered iand used for work train service.

I have a few E60s -- an outfit called GK came out with the first E60s, but I believe Walthers bought their dies.  Their locomotive used a modified Athearn U-boat chassis.  I have one of those.

Bachmann came out with a unit that had a self-contained six wheel power truck (with tired trucks) on one end and a dummy truck on the other.  They were painted for Amtrak but also has a blue and white Rock Island version.  It had a good looking plastic pantograph that was chrome plated.  I had about three .  The self-contained power truck was kind of hit or miss -- they were either very good or tended to burn out early -- when I had one burn out, I used the body over a modified Athearn UBoat chassis -- you have to file the sides of the fuel tank flat so that the skirts on the E-60 fit.

The best E-60 in my opinion was Bachmann's last issue that was a DC/DCC locomotive.  It had a beautiful pantograph, 12 wheel drive and ran very well.   I only have one of those, but it's a very nice locomotive.

From what I've read, the prototype E-60 got a bum rap because of the problems Amtrak was having with the six wheel trucks on the SDP40.  The E60s wound up pulling the heavy New York-Florida trains to Washington and supposedly were better at this task than the AEM-7.

At any rate, I'm babbling.

Hope this helps.

Electric Fan
P.S.  For the BachMann -- you/Bachmann have two Electric locomotive chasses (the E60 and the E33) that are easy fits for 6 wheel U Boats (U23C, U25C, U28C, U30C, U33C, U34C, and U36C).  Besides Rivarossi, no one is manufacturing General Electric U-Boats in HO.  It might be an opportunity for you.  I certainly would buy any you painted PRR, PC or Conrail. EF                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          

[ACY]

Hi:
Unfortunately the numbers end at 975.
According to Volume 3 of "Amtrak Power In Color", E60s came in two batches. 950 - 955 were classified as E60CP and were steam generator equipped, and numbers 956 - 975 were classified as E60CH and were Head End Power (HEP) equipped.  
Eleven E60s were rebuilt into motor-alternator locomotives (not sure what that means) and were renumbered 600-610.  Their headlight and numberboard arrangements are completely different from the original E60s.
Locos 950 and 953 were renumbered iand used for work train service.

Here is my question for you:
I have a photo showing some variant of an E60 and the two units are definitely numbered higher than 975, as I said the first two digits are a 9 and an 8 respectively, the third number is occluded. What is in my picture if it is not some E60 variant, what else looks like an E60?

[Rick Abramson]

I have 6 of the American GK E60's and they are beautiful! I fitted them with Walthers and Bachmann Faivley pans.
I got to run E60s on many occasions. They could pull the moon!! Too bad they were not a great success. For me, they were the last classic American motor.

[Piyer]

I have a photo showing some variant of an E60 and the two units are definitely numbered higher than 975, as I said the first two digits are a 9 and an 8 respectively, the third number is occluded. What is in my picture if it is not some E60 variant, what else looks like an E60?

Looking through several on-line rosters, I can comfortably state that Amtrak E60 units' numbers ended at 975. Amtrak did have two locomotives in the 990 series (X995 & X996) which were foreign units on loan for testing ahead of the AEM7 design:

AMTRAK       995  BOXCAB      ASEA/NOHAB             /76    SWEDISH STATE RAILWAY 1166--LEASED 6/76 TO 4/77
AMTRAK       996  BOXCAB      ALSTOM/FRA             /74    SNCF CC21003--LEASED FROM 1/77 TO 6/77
(source: https://www.thedieselshop.us/Amtrak%20all-time%20roster2.txt)

[ACY]

Looking through several on-line rosters, I can comfortably state that Amtrak E60 units' numbers ended at 975. Amtrak did have two locomotives in the 990 series (X995 & X996) which were foreign units on loan for testing ahead of the AEM7 design

I have seen those, those are neat units but those are not the ones in the photo.
If it helps the date on the photo is 1992.

[jward]

I have also combed through whatever Amtrak rosters and photos I could find. Apparently, when they were rebuilt they were renumbered in the 600 series. The only ones I ever saw in person, in 20th street in 1986, were in the low 600s. Nowhere could I find any reverence to E60s above 975.

That's not to say they didn't exist as a fluke. Stranger things have happened when a railroad is in transition. A good example would be NS 7329, a former UP sd90mac. It only wore that number crudely painted with a spray can while awaiting rebuild at Altoona. Plans changed, and it emerged from rebuild as 7319. NS rosters don't show 7329 as a former UP locomotive, but I have photographic proof it existed.

[Len]

I have to agree with Jeff. I've searched high & low and the only references I can find to an E60 #978 are all reviews of the Bachmann model. Which makes me wonder if Bachmann copied a unit on display somewhere, that was renumbered outside of Amtraks "block" for some reason?

I guess the only way we'll know for sure is if Bachmann tells us where the number came from.

Len

[ACY]

That's not to say they didn't exist as a fluke. Stranger things have happened when a railroad is in transition.

So perhaps the units in my photo were renumbered, and then after the fact they decided to use numbers in the 600 series after some were already renumbered and then at the next opportunity changed the numbers?
So then the question would be if these two units are at least 980 and 981, then does that mean for a short period of time some units were numbered 976-979?

[jward]

I suspect that may be the case, but I can find no record of those numbers being used.

[Len]

Mr. Bachmann or MR. Yardmaster, could one of you check back with Product Development and find out where those E60 road numbes higher than 975 came from please??

Len

[Bucksco]

After looking at various rosters it would appear that anything higher that 975 did not exist. These models were produced quite a while ago under the supervision of our previous product development manager who passed away a couple of years ago so unfortunately there is no way to question him as to why he did them with those numbers.