Scenery Questions

[NWsteam]

I’m just starting my scenery on my HO 6x8 layout and I have a few questions.  I already have the mountains formed using chicken wire.  I just bought some Woodland Scenic Plaster Cloth.  What are your opinions of this product?  It says on the back of the package to form the mountains out of paper and then use tape to hold it together.  Can I put the plaster cloth straight on the chicken wire?  OR should I put tape over the chicken wire and then plaster?  Do I paint the plaster after that then add rock formations or vice-versa?  Also is it ok to drill into the plaster to add trees?  Thanks for all your answers!

-Brad

[Jim Banner]

I’m just starting my scenery on my HO 6x8 layout and I have a few questions.  I already have the mountains formed using chicken wire.  I just bought some Woodland Scenic Plaster Cloth.  What are your opinions of this product?

Good product but I use regular plaster of Paris and used Bounce sheets.

It says on the back of the package to form the mountains out of paper and then use tape to hold it together.  Can I put the plaster cloth straight on the chicken wire?  OR should I put tape over the chicken wire and then plaster?

Right on the chicken wire should be fine.  Just make sure you stuff some newspaper underneath to catch the drips.  Plaster is hard enough to chip off the rails at the best of times, but inside a tunnel ...

Do I paint the plaster after that then add rock formations or vice-versa?  Also is it ok to drill into the plaster to add trees?  Thanks for all your answers!

Unless you put on several layers of plaster cloth, you will probably want to add straight plaster-of-Paris to build up some thickness and strength.  I use 1/4" to 1/2" over the Bounce sheets.

I usually finish all the plaster work including carving and adding castings, then let them dry thoroughly before painting them.  This seems to help the well thinned Artist's Acrylic paint that I use adhere better.  By all means drill into the plaster to "plant" trees.  But you might want to set a drill bit aside for just this work.  It does not have to be very sharp to drill plaster and it will not be sharp when you have finished drilling it.

[the Bach-man]

Dear NW,
Several scenery techniques are illustrated in the Photo Gallery on the two layouts I built.
Have fun!
the Bach-man

[ebtbob]

Brad,

      Usually,  the biggest complaint against the plaster cloth from Woodland Scenics is the price.   There are a number of alternatives,  but I use this cloth.  The one thing I do not do is follow the directions that tells you to dip a piece of the cloth into a pan of water.   Waaaaaaay to messy and if that cloth folds over on itself,   you quickly come to your upper level of patience.  If you use the WS cloth,  or any other plaster cloth,  cut the piece to size,  lay it up on whatever form you are using and spray it with a bottle of water.   Make sure the bottle can be set to atomize,  do not spray on a stream of water.   Once the cloth is wet take an old paint brush and "brush" the wet plaster over the cloth to seal the holes.   If you do not do this,  the cloth hardens and all those little holes will still be visible.  You may want to use multiple layers of cloth,  but you will get a good feel as to when to do this as you go along.
        As for forms,   you can use whatever you want.   Forms with balled up newspaper between the forms,   chicken wire,  layers of pink or blue foam,  a gridwork of strips of cardboard,  woven together with the strips either stapled,  or hot glued will work.
        Painting the plaster can be done before or after the addition of any extra rock molds etc.  I like to use a medium shade of brown as it is an earth tone.
        In most cases,  you will not necessarily have to drill holes to add trees.   That is one of the reasons that I like to use foam as my scenery base.   The plaster cloth is easy to puncture and of coarse,  the foam is easy to push things into.
        One last warning,   when working with any type of plaster,  all cleaning of brushes,  containers etc MUST NOT BE DONE IN A SINK.   You cannot believe how many people I meet that do not realize what will happen to their plumbing if a sink is used for clean up.

[SteamGene]

Woodland Scenic plaster cloth is essentially expensive plaster cloth used to make a cast for broken arms or legs.  Check eBay for "surgical cloth" and save a bundle.
Nut, I'll try your spray method.  I'd not heard of that. 
Gene

[Jim Banner]

One last warning,   when working with any type of plaster,  all cleaning of brushes,  containers etc MUST NOT BE DONE IN A SINK.   You cannot believe how many people I meet that do not realize what will happen to their plumbing if a sink is used for clean up.

Bob, I agree with almost everything you say except about cleaning in the sink.  I have been doing that for over 20 years in my present house and have never had a problem.  Right after installing a new sink next to the train room, I tested its drain time by filling it to the rim, then pulling the plug and timing how long it took to empty.  It stayed constant for about the first 15 years, and since then has been draining slightly quicker.  The one thing I do, and would recommend that anyone who cleans plaster-of-Paris in a sink do - run lots of water while cleaning and for several minutes after cleaning. 

In my previous house, I had a special sand trap under my train room sink.  It worked fine at keeping plaster out of the drains, but tended to harbour sulphate reducing bacteria.  When the train room stunk of rotten eggs, it was time to empty the sand trap.  But again, never a plugged drain.

However, and this is where we do agree, casual cleaning of plaster tools without precautions can and does plug the drains.  And no amount of Draino or liquid plumber will move it.  Taking the drains apart and reaming out the plaster or replacing the pipes are the only way to deal with the problem at that point.  If in doubt, clean in a pail and let the pail sit for 24 hours or so.  Then decant the clean liquid down the drain and toss the sediment into the garbage.

[NWsteam]

Thanks for all the help.  Everyone seems to say how expensive it is, yet I got it at $3 at a train show here in town.  Thats cheap enough for my budget!

-Brad

[SteamGene]

Of course you can get it cheap, if lucky.  I've even had some given to me.  But check MSRP!
Gene

[Atlantic Central]

OK,

The home inspector, real estate investor, residential designer, construction engineer side of me just has to chime in on the sink clean up issue.

Cleaning up any plaster like material (drywall compond, plaster of paris, hydrocal, etc) in a sink is no problem, IF you do like Jim said - run lots of water!!!!

In these days of the invironmental wackos, many people have been conditioned not to let water run in any manner that can be perceived as wastefull. This silly thinking causes more plumbing problems than you can imagine. A drain that is used, is a happy drain, and the more the merrier.

As for water you cannot waste something that cannot be made or distroyed. The only questions with water are:

Is the clean water where the people are?

And,

Are the people making the water dirty faster than they or mother nature are cleaning it?

This fundimental fact is why 70% of the population of North America is on 30% of the land, its the land with the water.

Happy mountain building to all!

Sheldon

[Atlantic Central]

One more note on this - for clarification.

Plaster, cement, etc, does not cure by drying, it cures by catalytic thermal reaction. The excessive amount of water used to wash away the waste in the sink will and does upset the curing and returns the plaster to simply being a sand like material. So it is all about running enough water.

But too little water and all you have really done is dump the plaster in the pipe - and that could be a problem.

Remember - The solution to polution is dilution!

Sheldon

[glsummers]

Brad,
You got the plaster cloth at a great price. I have built two very huge mountains with the plaster cloth only I used strips of cardboard to make my frame. One suggestion I would add to the rest is to take newspaper and lay it over your chicken wire and then wet it down so it will lay nice. If you lay serveral layers of newspaper it will protect your track under your mountain, at least it did for me. I did not get one drop of plaster on my track. I also cut the plaster cloth in about 12" lengths and then I had a pan that I used for big paint rollers to paint houses with. It is about 36X18 and about 10" deep, and I filled it with water and with just one simple dip of the cloth through the water and on to the mountain. I was able to do that in a short time and it was easy for me. I even had my wife dipping the cut up sheets and handing it to me and that worked great. Then after it dried I put another coat of plaster over the harded plaster cloth as Jim suggested. That cloth is great and is fast and I highly recommend it very much. Good luck and Merry Christmas Larry

[r.cprmier]

There is a product called shop cloths.  They are blue, on a roll, and Home depot, et al, sells them.  If done properly, these are the best scenic medium I have as yet  to use in a plaster setting.

There are several methods for shaping your terrain, and they have been bandied about many times, so my mention would be moot point.  Use the method that grabs you.

Rich