2 EZ Commands?

[jward]

Maletrain is mostly right about EZ app. But the description of EZ App vs other "Bluetooth" control is a little confusing.

On DCC the command signals to the locomotives pass through the rails and are thus susceptable to dirty track. The "bluetooth" control  these systems use merely passes a control signal from your cell phone to a command station which then puts that signal on the rails for your locomotive to read. Thus, it is not REALLY bluetooth control at all.

EZ App sends those control signals directly to the locomotive via bluetooth. The control signals do not pass through the rails and are thus less susceptable to corruption and degradation due to dirty track or loss of contact. An EZ APp locomotive will still draw its power from the rails, but since  the control signal is not passed through the track it should be more tolerant of dirty track.

EZ App was developed in a partnership with Blue Rail Trains, who offer bluetooth boards that can be added to any locomotive that is DCC ready. They also sell conversion kits to run locomotives off battery power, which could have some really interesting applications.

[Maletrain]

Direct radio control of locomotives, whether by Bluetooth (which piggy-backs on the technological developments driven by cell phones) or stand-alone radio systems (which are more expensive), require electronics in each locomotive that are not common on the market, today.

While it is true that there are commercial sources for add-on electronic boards to make a regular locomotive work with direct Bluetooth control, that is not something that a beginner in the hobby is typically ready to tackle.  It is similar to the more usual situation of a beginner with a DC locomotive that wants to make it a DCC locomotive by rewiring things and adding the necessary electronics.  For large scale models like S, O, G and larger, there is plenty of room to add things inside, and the parts are large enough to be robust against ham-handed beginners' skills.  With HO, there is usually enough room, but things are getting more fragile and easily broken.  For N, there is often simply not enough room, and there is often breakage of both model details and mechanism unless the hobbyist is both knowledgeable and skilled.  

So, a beginner who wants to run his locomotives via Bluetooth control is limited to what is available with that technology already installed, which is not many at this time.  And, many folks just don't like the interface that a cell phone screen provides for a locomotive throttle, compared to the regular DCC throttles that have real knobs and buttons.  The cell phone interface seems to make the "engineer" spend more time looking at his cell phone than his train, because there is no tactile feedback and it is easy to click on the wrong pseudo-button if you are not looking at the screen.  Some companies are starting to develop dedicated model railroad throttles that have knobs and buttons and use Bluetooth, but those are not cheap or fully developed at this point.  Bluetooth may be the main-stream system in the future, but, for now, it is pretty limiting for a beginner, especially in small scales.

As for running a locomotive on battery power, that too is a technology that works in large scale models but not is small scales.  In theory, it eliminates the whole job of wiring track for power and keeping wheels clean for electrical contacts.  It would stop stalling due to loss of electric contact to the motor.  On the other hand, it will require repeated recharging of the batteries, which may become a nuisance during realistic operating sessions.  And, there is also the problem of Lithium-Ion batteries that can catch fire.

So, from a beginner's standpoint, the choice is really whether to buy just whatever locomotives are available with Bluetooth to run separately from the DCC loco's EZ Command system by using  cell phones as throttles, or to buy a better DCC command station and additional throttles that connect to it.

Remember, the EZ Command DCC set-up can already run multiple trains at the same time, as I described before,  BUT, it is inconvenient to do it that way because there is really only one throttle that is integral with the command station, and you must keep switching that between locomotives to control changes for one at a time while all are running.  Using Bluetooth control does not change that if you are using only one cell phone for a throttle.  

And things might get really complicated if that cell phone is also still your telephone and calendar, and, while running one or more trains, you get a telephone call, a calendar reminder, or even an OS upgrade.  So, most folks use old, deactivated cell phones for their Bluetooth throttles if they are really into that part of the hobby.  For just running any old train around a circle, none of that is much concern, but the OP of this thread seems to be thinking beyond that.

[mrmel0]

Thanks people.

Honestly, I'm making a simple layout that will probably fit in a 3 X 6 area - two connecting ovals, maybe 2 spurs, one turning into a rail yard.

Don't plan on more than 2 locomotives at a time running.

From what I've gathered so far, the EZ Command ought to be able to handle all of that. Having 2 separate throttles isn't a big deal, and should I decide to expand, I'll just spring for a system that can do that.

Thanks again.

[Ralph S]

Funny, I have been reading all of General Discussion pages of the general discussion and came across this old post, so I thought my design might help others who, ... like me, like the simple Bachmann controllers over the more sophisticated power controllers.
Don't mean to beat a possible dead horse on this post, but this design of a crossover can support two EZ command controllers and not interact with each other.  It works for me. 

There are two diagrams (that I wanted to attach).  The first diagram shows EZ command controller no 1 powers the crossover.  The 6 pole double throw switch in the diagram shows the wiring for this crossover.  The EZ command controller no 2 shown in the second diagram shows the wiring from the 6 pole double throw switch that it energizes the crossover from the no 2 controller.

The EZ controller no 1 energizes the crossover and the train can move into the crossover.  The engine will come a stop at the far end in between the spacers if not manually brought to a stop before it reaches the second spacer for controller no 2. (third spacer if you're counting spacers).

This probably is the most important, the track in between the spacers must be long enough to stop a train engine at full speed before it reaches the second spacer*.  That second spacer (third if your counting) is deenergized at the opposite end and the engine looses power from the EZ command power no 1. 

The track section in the middle can be short to support only the train engine or can be long enough to support the entire train length.  But again the track in between the spacers must be long enough to stop the train before it crosses the second spacer section.

This works in reverse, that is the EZ controller no 2 energizes the crossover and the train can move into the crossover.  The engine will come a stop at the far end when it passes that first spacer due to no power in between the spacers section of track.

I used a five pole switch trying to establish a common between the two controllers but kept getting intermittent or stalling of the train engines.  I couldn't figure out why, after many variations of the wiring, and I gave up and decided to separate and isolate both feeds from both controllers.  This worked.

I tried to upload the schematic but obtained this response from the web site:
"The upload folder is full. Please try a smaller file and/or contact an administrator."  The file I tried to upload is only 75KB. The max is 128KB

So since I can't seem to be able share my design schematic, I can and want to share it with those who have 2 EZ controllers where one train can access another controller without the expected shorts, shutdowns etc.  Just note that the best way to keep the trains from you losing them, both controllers will need to have the same address for the trains.  That is, if your BNSF engine is number 4 on Controller no. 1 then it should have the same number 4 on Controller no. 2.  They can have different assignments but it will become confusing. 

Bear with me... I'm still trying to figure out how to provide the schematics (drawings) to those interested.  The drawings are self explanatory.  But below a "typed diagram" of the crossover and 6 pole double throw switch.     Plus I'd love any feedback anyone may have.

EZ power controller no 1
---------------------------\---------------------------------------------------------------------------------Track 1---
>Train direction>           \
                                      x \  x    Track spacer (or air gap) 1
                                            \
                                               \               (This section must be long)*
                                                 \
                                                   x \ x     spacer 2
                                                         \ 
                                                            \
                                                               \                                                                       
                                                                  \  This track section can be any length
                                                                    \          (i.e track between all spacers)
                                                                        \ 
                                                                          \
                                                                              \
                                                                               x \ x   Spacer 2
                                                                                     \
                                                                                        \       (This section must be long)*
                                                                                           \ 
                                                                                            x \  x  spacer 1
                                                                                                  \
----------------------------------------------------------------------- ------\--------------------------Track 2-------
EZ power controller no 2                                                       Frog

                                                       ~~~~1~~~~ To Rail 2 (Controller no 1)
Rail 2 between spacers    ~~3~~~~~|   
Cntrl 1                                              ~~~~15~~~
                                                       ~~~~5~~~~ To Rail 1 (Controller no 1)
Rail 1 between spacers    ~~7~~~~~|   
Cntrl 1                                              ~~~~17~~~
                                                        ~~~~9~~~~ To Rail 2 (Controller no 1)
Track  between all spacers   ~13~~~~|   
(Rail 2)                                              ~~~~10~~~
                                                         ~~~~11~~~To Rail 1 (Controller no 1)
Track  between all spacers   ~14~~~~|   
(Rail 1)                                               ~~~~12~~~ To Rail 1 (Controller no 2)
   
                                                       ~~~~18~~~
Rail 1 between spacers   ~~~4~~~~| 
Cntrl 2                                             ~~~~2~~~~ To Rail 1 (Controller no 2)
                                                       ~~~~16~~~
Rail 2 between spacers    ~~~8~~~~| 
Cntrl 2                                             ~~~~6~~~~ To Rail 2 (Controller no 2)

contacts 15, 17, 18 and 16 are open contacts                     


The above are the pinouts for the 6 pole double throw switch.

End of data

[Terry Toenges]

Ralph - You have to have a separate website to upload your photos, then copy them from there and paste them here using the the image tags [ img ] [ /img ]. (I put the extra spaces in there). You could also just use the address where you uploaded your pics with the website address tags [ url ] [ /url ].

[jward]

I'm a little confused here. Are you trying to devise an elaborate and complicated system of transferring control of a train from one command station to another, in order to keep using the "simple" EZ Command interface? Wouldn't it be cheaper, easier, and far less complicated to just go with a system where additional throttles are readily available. and avoid this unnecessary complication? I've used at least three different DCC systems other than EZ Command while running friends layouts, and none of them are harder to run than EZ Command. Either that or endlessly pester Bachmann until they bring back the walkaround companion. Or run DC with block switches and not worry about burning out controllers.

[Ralph S]

To Mr T:
I don't have a website,  and haven't ventured unto U-tube or other places where I can let others know how to upload/download images. Actually, that will be my third faze in building my model railroad.  But that's way off in the future....   Hope that helps.

To Mr. W:
If you can remember the old transformers where all you had was an on/off, forward/reverse switch and a throttle.  Well, that's where I'm at.  I like those simple controls.  The new sophisticated versions, like the current ones you're thinking about don't provide that simpleness.  I guess I'm kinda weird in that way, cause I want the simple to operate the complicated.    Having to move from DC to DCC, to me was a good move, but I also want to keep that simple on/off - throttle setting simple.   As I work on my layout , now that my wife allowed me to have a full figured room (i.e. bonus room) my dream of having a complicated layout but with the simplest of controls is what I'm striving for.  When I visited some of the Railroad clubs, they have some of the most orderly, high stakes controls.  I've been there (probably why I haven't joined a club) and although realistic operations, the controls are not so simple...in my book.  Also, what keeps me really busy is how to get the layout to conform to the simpleness of the controls...that's the complicated part.  For instance, check out my idea for a bascule bridge (separate topic).   I like block switches being part of the layout, where it will work with separate DCC controllers again that's the complicated part that I like designing for.   Hope this helps understand my ideas that'll keep me busy in retirement.

[jward]

I run a Digitrax Zephyr and my setup is very similar to what you describe. Plus, I can add two DC power packs as additional controllers. Acquiring a locomotive is as simple as pushing the "loco" button, entering the actual number of the locomotive, and pressing the locomotive again. You can't get much simpler than that. The setup is designed to be as close to a DC controller as possible, in fact it bears a strong resemblance to a Kato DC controller, and running a train is as simple as any DC pack. In fact, it can do exactly what you're trying to do right out of the box without having to engineer a complex solution to a simple problem. And if Bachmann hadn't shot themselves in the foot by discontinuing the walkaround companion, it's something the EZ Command could have done as well.