Are these shells interchangeable?

[kmcsjr]

I bought a train set 0-6-0, with Christmas paint scheme. If I buy a USRA short tender, are the shells a direct swap? I know I have some adaptations, to connect the tender.

[James in FL]

are the shells a direct swap?

No they are not.
The Spectrum Short Tender frame measures 2.104in.
The Spectrum Slope Back Tender frame measures 1.801in.
If you choose to use the Spectrum Short tender, check out what the Spook says about the conversion;
http://www.spookshow.net/loco/bach262.html

If you choose to use the Spectrum Slope Back, then no modifications, other than slightly closing the gap on the tender wires lokie side, are necessary.

Good luck

[brokemoto]

The Spectrum Short Tender frame measures 2.104in.
The Spectrum Slope Back Tender frame measures 1.801in.
check out what the Spook says about the conversion;
http://www.spookshow.net/loco/bach262.html

If you choose to use the Spectrum Slope Back, then no modifications, other than slightly closing the gap on the tender wires lokie side, are necessary.

Unlike the USRA 0-6-0 that Bachpersonn sells separately, the Christmas Train Set USRA 0-6-0 actually comes with the correct USRA short tender.  Funny thing is that according to someone who would know, not even any of the USRA 0-6-0 copies left the erecting shops with slopeback tenders.  This same person told me that he never saw a photograph of an original or copy USRA 0-6-0 with a slopeback.  Some roads either modified the coal bunker on the USRA short tender or fitted another tender with a narrow coal bunker to them.  This improved the crew's vision to the back.

I suspect that Original Poster wants to upgrade his locomotive but retain the Christmas shell.  Thus, he wants to swap out the stock tender chassis for a SPECTRUM tender chassis.  To do that, he should follow the quoted poster's advice and check out Spookshow's website for a brief and good description of what to do.  Several have stated that if you do the SPECTRUM swap on the slopeback, you need not do the modifications.  I respectfully disagree.  It has been my experience that you must modify the slopeback chassis and flip the drawbar.

To answer the Original Poster's question:

I found an old stock USRA short tender and a SPECTRUM.  In order to remove the stock shell from the chassis, you must undo the screws holding the trucks.  The SPECTRUM shell pops off the chassis.  Thus, the first difference is that there are two poles cast into the tender shell on the stock, which the SPECTRUM lacks.  On the stock tender, the stirrups are cast onto the tender shell; on the SPECTRUM, they are cast onto the tender chassis.  

When I tried the test fit, the stirrups on the stock shell did get in the way.  Be that as it may, it appears that the stock shell will go onto the SPECTRUM chassis.  I deduce this because if you slide the shell slightly forward, it will go down on one end.  The other end, where the stirrup gets in the way, sits up.  It appears that if you clip the stirrups from the stock shell, it will go onto the SPECTRUM chassis.  I was somewhat less than willing to try clipping the stirrups from mine, but, likely I will do it in the future, as the stock shell with which I was doing the test fit is lettered for the BALTIMORE AND OHIO Railroad.  While I do have some SPECTRUM tenders so lettered, if I do enough swaps on the USRA 0-6-0, I might need it.  

Another thing that might be necessary would be to shorten or clip altogether the poles cast into the inside of the shell of the stock tender.  Despite all of this, I did note that the fit was rather loose.  Thus, if you picked up the tender by the shell, the chassis would fall out.  I would shy from gluing the tender to the chassis, but perhaps Original Poster could wrap some tape inside the shell or find a place to pin or screw  the shell to the chassis.

It looks like it will go with a minimum of work.



EDITORIAL NOTE:  I went upstairs and got out my parts/bashing donor bags and boxes.  It appears that I have more than a few of the stock tenders.  Further, I have several packages of the Gold Medal brass stirrup sheets, thus, I ever I need this particular tender shell and it must have the stirrups, I can replace the stirrups with something from the Gold Medal sheet.

I took a stock tender shell and clipped the stirrups.  It will fit.  The fit is quite loose, so Original Poster must come up with a way to secure the stock shell to the SPECTRUM chassis.  If you are going to leave the shell as is, you must cut down the poles on the stock shell, slightly.  Even then, stock shell is going to sit funny on SPECTRUM chassis.  If Original Poster only wants it for a Christmas Train and is not too touchy about how the shell sits on the chassis, all that he need to is figure out how to secure shell to chassis.

If, however, Original Poster wants a better looking locomotive, he should compare the SPECTRUM shell to the stock shell.  What he will observe is that there is a bar, which represents part of the underframe that would be on the prototype, that is cast onto the stock shell.  On the SPECTRUM tender, the underframe bar is on the chassis.  Thus, for a better appearance, it will be necessary to trim that undeframe bar from the stock shell.  Note that on the stock tender, the chassis fits inside the shell, while on the SPECTRUM, the shell goes onto the chassis.  This can be accomplished with a fresh, sharp eXacto™ blade, a metal straight edge and a VERY HIGH DEGREE OF PATIENCE AND CARE.   Once Original Poster trims the underframe bar from the stock tender shell, said shell will seat properly onto the SPECTRUM chassis.  In addition, Original Poster will need to cut down the poles cast onto the inside of the stock shell even more.  Still, Original Poster must come up with a way to secure the shell to the chassis, as the stock shell sits loosely on the SPECTRUM chassis.

[kmcsjr]

Folks
THANKS! For all the careful detail. Yup, I want a Christmas train that runs on LOTUS (Looks OK To US)
I bought a Short USRA tender today. I will make it fit. Even if it ends up DCC, it will be a mini decoder, so I have lots of freedom, on how to secure the shell. I'll post results.

EPIC fail. It's the original version. Pre split frame. No traction tires. Runs nice enough to pull a few cars. I'll work it into Christmas!

I'll start another thread, with the right question.

[brokemoto]

ACTUALLY, all is not lost.  If you buy the version in the plastic box with the newest motor (not sticking out the back of the cab), you can take off the locomotive shell that comes on it and swap in the Christmas locomotive shell,  You can then do the tender shell swap as I outlined above.  The swap is easy, as there is a screw in one of the sand domes that holds the locomotive onto the chassis.  B-mann has not changed that in all the years that it has sold this thing.

[kmcsjr]

I have the new style. It just about fits. I think I'll need to sand the inside of the Christmas shell, a bit. I don't want to lose the one I have, so I'll look for another. Thanks.

[James in FL]

MBK has/had several Bmann lokies on closeout.
Just about a week and a half ago I got another 0-6-0 and a 2-6-2 and two Spectrum Short tenders and another Spectrum Slope back because MBK had a Bachmann discount code for an additional 10% off.
To the door was $158.20
Upon arrival, I observed the 2-6-2 to be the older version with the rear end of the motor sticking out.
The 0-6-0 however is the latest version with the motor fully filling the cab but not sticking out.
I have read, on other forums, that the single truck pick-up has been improved and actually works.
I will evalueate on my next days off.

@brokemoto
Not sure why you feel you have to modify the Slope Back tender for the power-pick-up conversion.
I have two on Spectrums without modification.
They run flawlessly.
This new one will be my third.
I will look for differences in the run characteristics between this new motor and the old one.
I've heard a lot of chatter, finally I will find out.
I understand what works for some does not work for others.
I'm a see it for myself kind of guy.
What I find works, works for me.
YMMV

[brokemoto]

@brokemoto
YMMV

My mileage has, indeed, varied.  I was finding that if I left the drawbar on the slopeback as it was, the drivers were not making proper contact with the track.  When I did the surgery that Spookshow and others have described to the chassis and flipped over the drawbar, the problems disappeared.  When I left the slopeback as it was, there were derailments, stalls and poor pulling power.  When I made the changes, all disappeared.

I see that you mentioned MBK.  If B-mann's Forum rules will permit discussing dealers and vendors..............................If Original Poster is buying on FeePay, he might note that there is a seller there, Favorite Spot, who sells large quantities of Bachpersonn.  He knows his Bachmann, so if you use the "Ask Seller A Question" feature, he can tell you if it is the new version with the new motor, the new version with the old motor or the old version period.

There were some split frames issued with the old motor.  They were, indeed, a markéd improvement.  I was running one for some time until the tube that held the drivers split on one driver pair.  The tubes appear to be the same on all versions, so I simply must get out one of the old ones and cannibalise it.

There does seem to be some improvement to the one live truck on the stock tender, but it still creates too much drag for my purposes.  In addition, my experience with half wheels live tenders is not the best, while my experience with all wheels live tenders is excellent.

The newest version with the smaller motor is, indeed, a real winner, once you swap in the SPECTRUM tender.  The "prairie" that you received with the older motor is not bad.

If you want to see what can be done with the split frame with the old motor, Skipgear posted his work on one.  He upgraded a Baltimore and Ohio locomotive.  One thing that he did to cover the back of the motor was add a curtain.  B&O ran any USRA locomotives, including the
0-6-0.  It also ran USRA light 2-8-2s and 4-6-2s.  While Model Power has issued them in N, and MRC has taken over the line, MRC did not address the problems in the MP construction methods adequately.  In addition, many of the details are cast onto the locomotive.  I have seen the HO versions of those that B-mann has issued and hope to see them in N.  I am convinced that B-mann could do a better job.  In addition, the B-mann HO versions have high or center mounted headlights, per the practice of the given road.  While all roads received the locomotives from 1918-1920 with center mounted headlights, when a given road rebuilt the locomotives, they moved the headlight if such were the practice.  Thus, the B&O moved all headlights to the high position.

The MPs with a B-mann SPECTRUM tender run very well.  In fact, adding the B-mann tender addresses all of the runnability problems.  The swap is not difficult.

Miranda's Maxim as explained by ke:  "The poor performance of many N scale steam locomotives is almost always directly attributable to poor electrical contact".

[kmcsjr]

Thanks
I do intend to try to updating an MP.
If we are sneaking in vendor names... that is my favorite feepay vendor.
As for the Christmas set. I'm hoping Bmann does a good set, with the closed back loco, until then I'm going to look for a few clean looking shells, that I can swap guts and such. It will be a nice intro to trying to get an old ConCor 2-10-2, I'm fond of, running and then doung some work with more expensive locos.