Thomas & Friends in 2018

[TrainFan97]

I also think the Large Scale range is dying. Just can't sell nearly as good as HO Scale.

Literally the only thing that's holding Bachmann back from making Stepney in HO Scale is the fact that he still has yet to be rendered. He would require a new tooling, but he's a tank engine. He just needs to return to the show.

[Plow_Bender]

I honestly have to agree with Chaz with most of what he sees being announced for the large scale range in 2018.  Personally there are some things he mentions that I favor more than others, but overall I mostly agree with him.  Here are my thoughts and also a few things I'd like to contribute as well.

I'm very much for seeing Diesel w/ DCC Sound considering as Chaz already said, there's no DCC Sound module available for him.  I think it would be beneficial for large scale to have at least 1 DCC Sound on Board diesel engine in the range considering we already have 2 steam engines available with this feature.  Something that I see maybe happening is Bachmann introducing a DCC sound module at the same time as Diesel just as they did when Thomas and Percy were announced.  Basically this module would be made to include sound suites for characters such as Diesel, Arry, Bert, Mavis, Salty, Paxton, etc.  Not saying I want to see something like this, but large scale lately has been pretty unpredictable.

As for Arry and Bert, I've been over this many times before.  I personally am agents seeing the models in large scale, but have pretty much accepted the fact it's going to happen.  I too have seen how poor sales have been for them in other ranges, and introducing them in large scale and expecting for a good turnout is like trying to kill a bird by throwing it off a cliff.  Put shortly, I see introducing Arry and Bert as basically suicide for the large scale range, and Bachmann would be better off going for a character such as Paxton or making a new tooling for Mavis.  That's just my two cents on that deal.

The mail car however I'm not so much seeing, but I'm not writing off completely.  I defiantly agree that I could see it getting announced and then getting recorlored for other models, but I'm hoping if this happens we get something like the brown van from either Thomas and the Trucks or The Flying Kipper.  Wishful thinking I know, but would be a much better seller in the end.  Back on the topic of the mail car however, I also agree that it would sell in multiple quantities as most people will probably buy at least 2 if not more.  The only problem I see that's keeping me from fully agreeing is that as Chaz already said, the mail car would be the largest piece of rolling stock the range would have to offer.  Large models in large scale doesn't seem to be a good combo.

The red coaches I'm all for.  They are a simple recolor with a few alterations and would be possibly the best selling additions to large scale in a long time.  Like the mail car, they too would sell in multiple quantities.  I'm not sure about everyone else, but I'd probably go out and buy at least 3-4 coaches verses just 2.  I say these are a pretty easy piece of rolling stock for Bachmann to introduce into the range, and are definitely something large scale needs for 2018.  Out of everything, I'm definitely hoping for these if nothing else.

-Rusty

[TrainCollector]

I know Arry and Bert are possible in Large scale because they use Diesel's tooling but Plow Bender is right. That would just be suicide for the large scale range. I would rather see Mavis be made in large scale just because she's easier to make despite being a new tooling. Everyone tries to say Gordon and Henry are way too big but Bachmann have made several 4-6-0 locomotives. Henry is a 4-6-0 and Gordon being a 4-6-2 would just add that extra wheel. It doesn't matter how long they are just how far their leading and trailing wheels turn. Also the middle wheel cannot be flanged on either model. This is just my opinion on the large scale range releasing Gordon or Henry. I know many don't think it's possible but I'm just trying to narrow it down.

[donaldthescottishtwin]

They could make Edward by altering James' tooling, I believe Edward would sell very well.

[Plow_Bender]

Everyone tries to say Gordon and Henry are way too big but Bachmann have made several 4-6-0 locomotives. Henry is a 4-6-0 and Gordon being a 4-6-2 would just add that extra wheel. It doesn't matter how long they are just how far their leading and trailing wheels turn. Also the middle wheel cannot be flanged on either model. This is just my opinion on the large scale range releasing Gordon or Henry. I know many don't think it's possible but I'm just trying to narrow it down.

I've lost count the number of times we've gone over this, but Gordon and/or Henry having a chance in large scale is about as likely as Bachmann bringing back their K-27 in the Spectrum line.  What people are not getting is that the models are JUST TOO BIG!

Take Emily for example.  She is the largest engine in the Thomas range and is around 27" long with a wheel base length being roughly 14 1/2".  Bachmann's 10-wheeler locomotive is about 30" long and has a wheelbase length of about 12 1/2".  Bachmann's C-19 is 32" long, and has a wheel base length of 13 1/2".  Keep in mind that all wheelbase measurements are locomotives only and don't include the tender.  To paint the bigger picture here, Emily herself has a longer wheelbase than that of Bachmann's 4-6-0 10-wheeler or the 2-8-0 C-19.

Gordon and Henry are larger than Emily, and would be larger than her model if made in large scale.  What I'm sure many don't know, is that Bachmann's Thomas models are 1:22.5 scale, while other models in Bachmann's large scale range are about 1:20.3 scale.  Just because Bachmann made a 4-6-0 with their 10-wheeler means nothing, because Gordon and Henry would be bigger than that model anyways.  If Emily herself already has a larger wheelbase length than Bachmann's C-19, Gordon and Henry would be no different.  Larger wheelbases limit how tight of curves the models can negotiate.  Bachmann altered Emily's chassis with both front and rear axles on pony trucks, and also accommodated the tender coupling to pivot right behind the driving wheel and added 2 holes in the coupler to allow the tender to be spaced further back from the locomotive.

Unless you're someone with an actual garden railroad, most people who have the large scale Thomas models probably have the Bachmann steel alloy track and run their models indoors.  Bachmann's steel alloy track only offers 4' diameter curves.  Gordon and Henry would have a longer wheelbase than that of Emily's, and with little to no room to modify the chassis.  It's not as simple as just removing the flanges from the middle driving wheels.  Bachmann would not bother with modifying the chassis to work on 4' diameter curves, and most likely the models would instead require larger radius curves which are only available in brass track which cost more than steel alloy.  No one is going to go out and buy new track and/or start a new track system just to run 1 or 2 models.

Then you have price for the models, both production and retail costs.  Gordon and Henry would be too much for a lot of modelers out there and sales would be poor.  Emily herself is already $429 and considering that Bachmann's 4-6-0 models hover around the $475 range, Gordon and Henry could be anywhere from $550-$600 if not more.  Not everyone has that kind of money and it limits the number of sales.  Keep in mind that over the years, prices on Bachmann models have gone up and will continue to do so.  I'm sorry, but there just aren't enough positives with the models. 

They could make Edward by altering James' tooling, I believe Edward would sell very well.

Edward being a tender engine gives him a slim to none chance of happening regardless how you look at it.  I had hopes of Edward for 2017 (just as I did for 2016), but after 2 years and the announcements we've had lately, I've lost hope for Edward in large scale.  I could honestly see characters like Rosie, Mavis, or even Arry and Bert having more of a chance than any models larger than that.  These days, size and/or reuse of tooling plays a big factor in a model being made and I know for a fact that's why we've gotten a lot of what we already have in the range. 

What everyone fails to understand is that the large scale market is dying, not just for Bachmann's Thomas range, but for their Big Haulers and Spectrum line as well.  Hell, the large scale market in general is bad even for Bachmann's competitors.  Many other manufactures that sell large scale have released very little the last few years, or even released nothing at all.  Some have even gone under and aren't around anymore.  I highly suggest that if you want to argue that claim, I recommend taking a look at a recent topic in the large scale forum and see what I'm talking about.  Like it or not, large scale only has a few years left.  You know it, I know it...

http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/board/index.php/topic,33756.0.html

-Rusty

[SilviaGunner]

What everyone fails to understand is that the large scale market is dying, not just for Bachmann's Thomas range, but for their Big Haulers and Spectrum line as well.  Hell, the large scale market in general is bad even for Bachmann's competitors.  Many other manufactures that sell large scale have released very little the last few years, or even released nothing at all.  Some have even gone under and aren't around anymore.  I highly suggest that if you want to argue that claim, I recommend taking a look at a recent topic in the large scale forum and see what I'm talking about.  Like it or not, large scale only has a few years left.  You know it, I know it...

http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/board/index.php/topic,33756.0.html

-Rusty

That's odd... The Large Scale market is doing great in Europe.

[mully]

Rusty calm down. This is a thread for people to voice ideas. To be honest the amount of times I see everyone kicking off on here about what's realistic for the range and what isn't is rediculous. Why dont we all chill out and wait and see. We all have ideas of what we would like and what might get made and why. If you ask me this thread is more trouble then its worth. Makes the community as a whole look bad as all we seem to do is argue and shout each other down over "unrealistic ideas" remove the thread remove the problem.

[Chaz]

Rusty calm down. This is a thread for people to voice ideas.

If you took the time to actually read his post, you will see he actually does go in depth and explain in detail the chances of what has a chance of happening and what won't happen.  He is allowed to be realistic about what he expects to happen, and people are allowed to agree/disagree with each other as long as they are civil about it.

And he's actually right about the large scale market not doing very well, hence why the large scale announcements have been pretty minimal the last couple of years.

If you don't like the idea of someone being realistic with their views, then that's your problem, not his.

[Plow_Bender]

That's odd... The Large Scale market is doing great in Europe.

You do have a point, but that's probably for companies like LGB who manufacture for the European market.  American companies like Bachmann, USA Trains, Aristo-Craft, etc haven't been doing well in terms or sales, which leads to them to be reluctant about announcing new products.  LGB on the other hand seems to be announcing new products almost every year, but again, their a manufacture for the European market.  It could also be that sales for large scale products in Europe are better than sales in the USA, but that's something I can't say 100% that I know for sure.

In addition to Chaz's post, Mr. Mully, I find it funny how you want to call me out even though as you said, and I quote:

This is a thread for people to voice ideas.

I have voiced my ideas and also backed up my post with reason.  I am entitled to my opinion, just as you and everyone else is with yours.  Furthermore, as I am a collector of large scale (not just Thomas & Friends), I've paid very close attention to the large scale market overtime and seen what's gone down over the last few years.  Not everything I say is my opinion, but more facts than anything.  Like Chaz said, if you don't like me being realistic, that's "YOUR" problem.  Whether you like what I post or not, I don't care.  You're not obligated to agree with me.

-Rusty

[mully]

I'm just making sure we all get along and yes explain reasons for or against but sometimes your wording comes across very obnoxious and patronizing to many other users. Hence I think topics like this are a very bad idea. Tbh who knows what 2018 will bring if anything. And while I'm all up for a nice discussion some topics are getting over played now like large scale Gordon and henry, (unrealistic? Yes. But if you are so sick of apparently "going over this" then dont lol. We used to be a great fourm and like a community, can we get back on topic my pm is open of anyone needs to talk btw

[Chaz]

Hence I think topics like this are a very bad idea.

But if you are so sick of apparently "going over this" then dont lol

Sounds like you could really benefit from taking your own advice...

All you have been doing is simply trying to provoke an argument for the sake of provoking an argument. People have made suggestions on this forum for over 10 years, and it's unlikely that is going to change anytime soon. Again, if you don't agree with someone's thoughts or ideas, you can do so in a civil manner, but saying the thread should be removed because you don't agree with someone for being realistic is just childish and petty.  If you really want to "get back on topic" then stop bringing it up.

[mully]

Does anyone think there's a chance of a human character being added to the range in the 2018 announcements?

[Plow_Bender]

Well, here is my first post on what I'd like to see in the large scale 2018 announcements.  The first large scale item I'd like to see Bachmann announce in 2018 is Mavis.  I've already made a post about Mavis in the 2017 thread, but I'm giving it another go for 2018.  Sadly I'm having doubts about Mavis making it into the range (for reasons I'll explain further on in this post), but let's give it a shot anyways.

To begin with, Mavis has a wide fan base.  She has made a number of appearances lately, and has also appeared in some of the recent specials (excluding Journey Beyond Sodor).  Unfortunately she hasn't really had any major roles and mostly just makes cameos.  Still, even if she hasn't been in the spotlight lately, many of the older fans like her because she has been a classic character since Season 3.  I know some want to bring up she was one of the first female engines, but please just do us all a favor and stick it...

The fact that Mavis is a classic character though is a very good reason for Bachmann to bring her into large scale.  As some will remember, many people on here went crazy when Mavis was announced for the HO range, simply because of how much demand there was for her.  Ever since Mavis was released, she continues to be the best selling diesel in the range.  I'm sure many would feel the same way if a large scale model of her was announced.  The only problem that is presented though is that apparently diesels don't do well in large scale.  Bachmann is taking a stab at making Diesel, but in hopes that a diesel in the Thomas & Friends range will sell better than something like their now discontinued 0-4-0 Gas Mechanical and/or 45 ton switcher in the Spectrum line.  Not to mention the tooling is already there if they decide to release Arry and Bert, which I'm sure they will...

Now in terms of production and costs for Mavis, things are looking good.  For a start, she is a smaller engine and that's something Bachmann has paid close attention to with about 60% of the large scale engine characters they've announced.  Because Mavis is a smaller model, she would be less costly than larger engines such as Duck or Edward.  Her tooling is fairly easy as well, and Bachmann could possibly reuse Toby's chassis just as they did with the HO models.  Given that all this plays out, it could potentially mean an earlier release date for the model as well.  I don't know about the rest of you guys, but I'd be pretty happy to have a Bachmann large scale Mavis under my Christmas tree next year.

Now the biggest problem I see with Mavis being announced is pretty much the direction the large scale range is going now.  Many would agree that Mavis would have been a better engine character for the 2017 announcements, and I personally feel that she has more appeal than Diesel does.  Considering history repeats itself, my biggest fear is that Diesel (as well as Arry and Bert when and if they're released) will do so poorly in sales that plans for Mavis will be thrown out.  This would pretty much be just because of the choice of characters Bachmann decided to release before or instead of Mavis.  As I've said before, Arry and Bert were not good sellers for the HO range, nor were they good sellers in O gauge for one of Bachmann's competitors. 

So let's finish up here.  Although I wasn't interested in a large scale Mavis at first, it's definitely a model I'd be happy to see introduced into the range now.  It's also pretty clear at this point that Bachmann has no plans to ever release a Henrietta, so to at least have Mavis to go along with Toby kind of makes up for it.  Mavis could also be beneficial to the range considering we've got 3 of the other Ffarquhar engines already.  I myself would enjoy giving Mavis her own stone trucks to pull around my garden railroad.  Fingers crossed she makes it in the 2018 announcements.



Next post will be on the Red Coaches when I have time.

-Rusty

[TrainCollector]

Oh wow that is a good point. I think Mavis has the best chance out of all the other engines being released in Large Scale. But Rusty is right. The Large Scale range is dying and we should all appreciate it while it's still here. The cost to make these is expensive but totally worth it. I'm hoping we get Mavis. But now I can see Gordon and Henry just aren't possible. Well here's hoping we get something good for 2018.

[Chaz]

Hey Bachmann, I have an idea for your next road character.