Lube Question

[jbrock27]

Ahyea, I can see that point, but don't get with how much lube you have used, how a wear situation would occur.

And yes, I watched Mr. Bachmann's video of him putting some oil on the axles, but still don't get why.  Why?  Bc delrin plastic is very slippery and not sure why it would need oil on it.

[jbrock27]

How about those other pics boss?

[jbrock27]

I can understand that some of today's plastics are harder than some softer metals, but in this case, you can't tell me the metal of the axles on these is softer than the plastic of the truck.

For the heck of it, I popped off the truck cover on a GP9M loco I own which is similar in design to your F7A and took out one of the wheel-sets and yes, can see what I believe you are talking about.  For lack of a better term, there are 2 plastic U shaped cradles that the axle for each wheel rests in, on the truck.  Is there crud built up in them (the 2 U shaped cradles), probably attracted by the oil being there, that is perhaps the cause for what is wearing the metal on the axles?

[jbrock27]

...therefore, are you sure that what was happening, was not that the wiper was rubbing the axle(s) during this time?

[jbrock27]

Wipers,pick ups,contacts, what ever you want to call them,run on the back of the wheel "tread"

That is not the wheel tread, the wheel tread, as I pointed out earlier, is that portion of the wheel that rides the rails.

The other 3 engines I have are not wearing at all like this one has and they all run the same amount.

Think about that; you have been using the same maintenance method and approach with all 4 locos, yet this is the only one that has a problem.  Does that not tell you the cause rests with something else other than lube?  Have you given any consideration for that?  Such as one or more of these wheel sets were out of gauge?  Do you own an NMRA Standards gauge?

No use in posting other pics

Not sure why you are reluctant to post other pics since it seemed easy enough for you to post pics of the wheelsets...I would post other pics as it could shed more light and perhaps prevent putting you back in the same situation even after buying new trucks (not sure why you would be buying trucks anyway since you seem to keep saying there is nothing wrong with them )

I have been a mechanic all of my life

Have to be honest, for a mechanic, you are not very exacting in your terminology, or clear in identifying components for that matter, which would be expected of someone in your field.

if it rides or touches something,it needs lubed.

In some instances, yes that is the approach, but don't know how that approach is the correct one in every instance.

[James in FL]

Hi Mr Mechanic,

I've been following along with this thread, and have a few thoughts.
Back in the day when we plated with either nickel or chrome (chromium) we first plated with copper.
It would not surprise me to find the Chinese are still using this old technology.
This may be the "copper anti seize" you describe.
I also think you have figured it out.
As the nickel or chrome plating wore off what little lube carrier was holding the particulate matter effectively becoming a "lapping" compound causing further wear to your half axles.
Sorry to say this was caused by under lubrication or perhaps not using the proper lubricant, and not removing all the old gunk (what has now become worn off plating grit, what you're calling anti seize) before applying new.
I also see where the wear is more concentrated to the left side more so than the right.
This would indicate that the loco travels primarily in one direction rather than equally traveling in both directions. Say counter clock wise more than clock wise.
In your Pic...If the axles are laid out as the closest one toward the viewer is closest toward the rear of the loco, I would guess you are running in mostly a counter clockwise direction.
Is this correct?
Either way... you have to check these lube points more frequently and clean and lube as required.
I don't think you are using the wrong lube, but I do think you're not checking and cleaning often enough, I also think this could have mostly been prevented had you caught it sooner (run hour service intervals).
What I would do...
Buy replacements if still available, you will need them sooner rather than later.
Swap half axles left to right and forward to rear truck, this should help to slow the wear and might buy you some time.
Note the pitch to the white gears, this must remain the same (all one way) after you swap half axles left to right.
Run the lokies equally in both directions CW/CCW.
I have seen razor sharp flanges from constant one way running.
FWIW...I have never observed that much wear in that little time on anything of any scale.
Clearly a lubrication issue.

I copied your pic and added a Yellow arrow.
Have another look at this axle set, looks to me like possibly the start of a cracked gear.
Now that's an interesting observation, wondering if the axle is slipping.
Someway contributing to the wear?
Still many questions.




Good luck

[tiebreaker]

Still have the receipt? Sounds like a call to Bachmann to replace said loco's.
I am wondering is the other loco's Sound Value also?
How often have you cleaned and lubed in the past 2 1/2 years of ownership. Could be a defective loco and as James pointed out, may have a cracked gear.

[James in FL]

Comparing to the picture...
If we say the axle furthest from the viewer is the forward most in the front truck.
Could you number them or state from front to back which axle in the pic is which?
Ex.... Forward axle forward truck.... Rear axle forward truck, rear axle rear truck etc.?

[jbrock27]

While that 2nd axle may be cracked (not sure why Mr. M would not have observed this) this IMO would not be the cause of the wear being reported and that we see.  It would just cause that wheel-set to spin in the axle gear and slip.

call to Bachmann to replace said loco's.

I believe he does not want to or needs to do that.  Particularly in an instance where it is just a matter of parts, which may even cost less than returning a whole loco.  There is also an inherent risk when mailing in a loco, of not getting that particular loco back.

How often have you cleaned and lubed in the past 2 1/2 years of ownership.

My impression, based on info he provided, was very frequently, obsessively and too frequently if you ask me, but this flies in the face of what looks to have happened here...

[jbrock27]

James, have you actually seen or experienced this before?  I never have.

[tiebreaker]

jbrock I only suggested returning as no one but James has come up with a possible cause, Who knows there could be a casting imperfection that no one see's. How can you there is only pics of the victim and not the suspect.

Obsessive cleaning could be the culprit if at one time of cleaning it was not assembled correctly, not saying this is what happened but if something did not line up just right could have caused this.

I have only went with a full tear down for lubing if a problem was detected. Normal oiling with one drop of LaBelle's lube's keeps them going. It is a known fact Bachmann over lubes their loco's 90% of the time.

Starting with fresh loco's may be the way to go or not.

[jbrock27]

It seems that the stub axle is pushed into the wheel more on that one than the others,again,in spec.

This is where having the NMRA gauge is invaluable to check the gauge on the wheels.  As I mentioned in one of my prior posts, something made this loco end up different than your other 3, even though you used the same approach to lubing it as the other 3.

Good, sounds like you explored the option of just replacing the wheel-sets; sorry it is not that less expensive or easy for you

[James in FL]

Posted by: jbrock27    Posted on: Today at 04:15:28 PM
Insert Quote
James, have you actually seen or experienced this before?  I never have.

No Sir, I have not either but that's why I'm still interested..

[jbrock27]

I'm still interested..

As I have been, all this time...

no one but James has come up with a possible cause

LOL, hey thanks so much for validating my time and efforts, LOL .  You would agree that hopping into a Thread after someone has taken the time to vet some answers, makes it easier to provide suggestions, wouldn't you?  LOL

Who knows there could be a casting imperfection that no one see's. How can you there is only pics of the victim and not the suspect.

You have seen my posts, pleading for more pics, right?

Obsessive cleaning could be the culprit if at one time of cleaning it was not assembled correctly, not saying this is what happened but if something did not line up just right could have caused this.

I don't think so, bc I think that would have easily manifested itself and would have been noticeable off the bat.  I think you are on the right track with suggesting a defect.  And I think it was from the get go and just not picked up on.  With all due respect to James, I don't see this as "clearly a lubrication issue".  I think the lubrication, which was done as it should have been done, probably even more often than needed, just helped to underscore the issue and did not contribute to it.  Support of this is no issues with 3 other locos of the same age, treated the same way. 

It is a known fact Bachmann over lubes their loco's 90% of the time.

Agree, as is the case with many manufacturers.

Starting with fresh loco's may be the way to go or not.

At this stage, I say "not".

run them less time

I don't think that is the approach you need to take.  Again, the others are fine, right, run and maintained the same way?  Run them as long as you like, you just got some clunker parts on this one, that's all.

Thanks all for posting comments.

You're welcome for the time and effort.

[jbrock27]

You did not previously answer my question about whether you were asking about an HO or N scale loco.  Even in your last post, you are referencing ballasting "HO track before the N track gets delivered".       This is confusing to say the least.   In the future, know there is an N Scale section to this forum and that perhaps you would have found your answer if you posted there.  It is not until your latest pics (I had asked for additional ones all along) that it is finally clear that you are asking about an N scale loco problem.  Frankly, you should have stated such from the get go and placed your question in the right place for a chance at better results.