EMD GP10...Possible Market Idea??

[thehnw1223]

I have always loved the HO Scale GP7 and GP9 series. The engines are great for any layout, no matter if it's a shortline, mainline, or a yard.

However, I've noticed that many people have a hard time finding HO Scale EMD GP10s, which have been very popular through Conrail, Illinois Terminal, the United States Army Railway, Colebrookdale Railroad, Georgia Central Railroad, East Penn Railroad, Clinton Terminal, and many other lines.

Possible market idea???

[jward]

the problem here is that the gp10 was not a standard model. there were many different gp10s rebuilt by different railroads, and all of them were different. walthers already produces what they call a gp9m, which would make a good generic model of a gp10.

[Piyer]

... However, I've noticed that many people have a hard time finding HO Scale EMD GP10s .....

Expanding on what Jeff said, the "GP10" is an unofficial designation for a number of EMD models - GP7, GP9, GP9B, and GP18 - as well as locomotives previously rebuilt to GP8 and GP10 designations, which were rebuilt to one extent or another and given the GP10 designation to differentiate them from stock locomotives. Usually this work involved chopping a high short hood into a low nose one, the addition of some sort of paper air filter box on the top of the long hood, and electrical and mechanical upgrades. Some GP10s kept their high short hoods. Some GP10s have huge yoke-like paper air filters, while others have less prominent units. Some GP10s have what we would think of as conventional twin beam headlights, while some received triple units or bug-eye units or both.

I'm a fan of locomotive rebuilding, so I recently picked up a Kaslo GP10 body shell kit. The instructions show more than a half dozen paper air filter configurations, and about as many headlight ones - just to name two of the detail-specific changes necessary to model a specific prototype locomotive. And that doesn't take into account the changes that have taken place to the units between the time they were converted to GP10s and "now," whenever one's layout / model is set.

Given the relative individuality of GP10 units, this might make for a nice model to kitbash yourself. Whether you start with the GP9m or a Kaslo body shell kit, or even a stock GP7/9/18, and work from there, you can easily work up a custom unit for your freelance railroad, or come up with a respectable version of a prototype one using the various photo archives on the internet.

The important thing is to not be afraid to get a little messy in the process of getting what you want. And don't dismiss the notion because you lack modeling skills. Even the best of us lacked skill once, and they got those skills by doing. HAVE FUN! MAKE A MESS! Become an HO-scale plastic surgeon! 

[James in FL]

The important thing is to not be afraid to get a little messy in the process of getting what you want. And don't dismiss the notion because you lack modeling skills. Even the best of us lacked skill once, and we got those skills by doing.

Truer words never spoken.

Some of us have had the benefit of being taught the required sills to do a project such as this.
Some of us were not so blessed, and educated themselves, and learned from trial and error.
I do see this conversion to be more on the easy side for an early or first bash.
The unexperienced might see it as a tremendous challenge, whatwithall the actual cutting of a lokie shell?
Are you kidding? I have to cut the shell?
Some anxiety is not uncommon. We've all been there, and got passed it, you will too.
If you have the proper parts, your half way there.

HAVE FUN! MAKE A MESS! Become an HO-scale plastic surgeon!  Wink

I agree again, Go for it, you'll be glad you did.

You have to break eggs to make mayonnaise.

FWIW
When my son was stationed at Fort Stewart I saw and photographed a GP10 and didn't know what it was.
This was about 06'- '07.
When I first saw it, I thought a GP7,
but it was slightly different in an odd way.
I'll see if I can find the pics, it was Army red.
Way back when, might have been part of the CoG.

[Len]

Also keep in mind that many "GP10" conversions were electrical, or electrical and engine, only. With no carbody changes at all. So the only really visible modification would be adding the air intake duct.

Len

[jward]

another modification often made when rebuilding was the removal of dynamic brakes on units that originally had them. db was unnecessary as most gp10 rebuilds went into yard and local service where speed were low and dynamic brakes less effective. often the fan and air intakes were removed from the dynamic brake housing and the openings plated over.

as an example of how varied these rebuilds were, consider the 3 units on the Pittsburgh & ohio central. all were bought second hand. 706 has an ox yoke type air filter and a bug eye headlight that protrudes above the short hood. 1711 has undergone its second rebuild. in the first one it got a lowered short hood, an ox yoke air filter, but retained its dynamic brakes. the headlight was moved to the cab roof between the number boards, similar to the walthers gp9m. in its second rebuild, the entire db housing was removed, and the radiator fans were changed from the single large button top fans common to late production gp9s, and replaced with the fans from a gp40. the third gp10 was rebuilt as a "gp11" with a cab similar to a gp40, ox yoke filter and no dynamic brakes. the headlight was moved to the nose of the unit.  all 3 of these were done by Illinois central at their Paducah shops, though they were done for different onwers.

[Piyer]

FWIW
When my son was stationed at Fort Stewart I saw and photographed a GP10 and didn't know what it was.
This was about 06'- '07.
When I first saw it, I thought a GP7,
but it was slightly different in an odd way.
I'll see if I can find the pics, it was Army red.
Way back when, might have been part of the CoG.

Here's one of the Army's GP10s

[jward]

the army unit is yet another version. nose headlight, oxyoke air filter, original cab. this one appears to be a Paducah rebuild as well.

[Trainman203]

Boy is that great looking track in front of and under that army unit.  Never see something like that on most model railroads.

[thehnw1223]

Ok then...would bringing back the GP18s then help?

[jward]

I personally would be interested in a low hood gp18 with dynamic brakes. I love those slope nosed EMDs like the gp18 and gp20.

[Desertdweller]

Early in this thread, it was commented that a GP10 was not a standard production model.  That is the reason there are so many variants.

The early Geeps, GP7 and GP9, turned out to be the most easily modified locomotive ever.  Have an early Geep and want 500 more horsepower?  Hang a turbocharger on it.  A 1500hp GP7 becomes a 2000hp "GP20".  The UP did this using AirResearch turbos before EMD offered the GP20.  They were called "Omaha GP20's" because they were converted at UP's Omaha Shops.

Want 2000hp units, but don't want the low-speed reliability problems of turbos?  Install 645 power assemblys on the 567 engines.  A power assembly consists of a cylinder, cylinder head, and piston.  645 (cubic inch displacement) power assemblies will fit on an engine designed for 567 ones.

So you have at least two ways to build your own 2000hp Geep.  Consider electrical and control upgrades and you can have all kinds of homemade GP20's.

I have driven a lot of Milwaukee Road "GP20's" although Milwaukee never bought a factory GP20.  They built them using 645 power assemblies.  Many roads would have called them GP10's.

The clean, simple lines of the early Geeps lend themselves to easy kitbashing.  Both GP7 and GP9's were available new with dynamic brakes as factory-installed options. While the blisters may be difficult to remove, they are easy to blank out.  Short hoods are easy to chop, and it is not difficult chop the hood so it slants like a GP18 or GP20 hood if that is desired.  It is not difficult to even remove the cab for a B unit.

When I have chopped up a Geep, it works best to model a specific unit, simply because there are so many variations.

Les

[jward]

the gp7s were mostly built in small batches. during this time period, the railroads considered them to be local power, and bought them outfitted for specific services. by the time the gp9 supplanted the gp7, their superior reliability over other builders products, and their ease of maintainence compared to cab units like the f7 had endeared them to railroad management, and the gp9s were far more standardized than the gp7s were. on many railroads, it was the gp9. arriving in mass quantities, that finally killed the steam locomotive.

thus, the gp8 and gp10 rebuilds were varied because the core locomotives from which they were rebuilt were varied.