Bachmann 2-8-4 Sand Dome Removable?

[Dakota7820]

Are the sand domes on Bachmann's 2-8-4 Berkshires removable? I'd like to use these locomotives for a freelanced railroad, and swapping out the large sand domes seems like an effective way to make them not look so much like Nickel Plate locomotives.

[WoundedBear]

Judging from the exploded diagrams, I would say yes.

http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/dwg/dwgs/HO%202-8-4%20BERKSHIRE%20with%20DCC%20SOUND.BOILER.pdf

Sid

[Dakota7820]

Ah, stupid me....didn't even think to look there  haha

[J3a-614]

Sounds like an interesting project!

One possible approach to consider would be to reverse the sand and steam dome locations.  The Nickel Plate used an unusual arrangement, with the steam dome well forward of where it would normally be.  This was to take steam from a place where the boiler would be a bit quieter, lessening the amount of water drawn up through the dome and on into the superheater.

This was fine for a relatively level road like the NKP, but on the more up and down Chesapeake &  Ohio, it was found that this arrangement, also used on the T-1 2-10-4s and on the first J-3 4-8-4s, could lead to a flood of water going down the dry pipe as the engine crested a hill and the water in the boiler surged forward.  This was particularly noticed on the Greenbriars, which operated over the very hilly division between Hinton, W.Va. and Charlottesville, Va., which featured two important crests with vertical curves so sharp that new engineers, coming up on them at track speed, could think their locomotives were about to become airborne!  Later 4-8-4s and the Kanawhas (2-8-4s) got the more traditional arrangement of the steam dome near the center and the sand box forward.

A number of other railroads used this design, among them Chesapeake & Ohio, Wheeling & Lake Erie, Pere Marquete, Virginian Railway, and Richmond, Fredericksburg & Potomac.  Most of these roads ordered a number of cosmetic changes (C&O liked the headlight low for better visibility in the fogs of the Ohio and Kanawha valleys, most of the other roads had different pilots), and some went in for other mechanical options (all roller bearings on C&O & W&LE, larger tender and cab on C&O, combined steam and sand dome on VGN, Box Pok drivers on W&LE, bigger tenders on C&O and VGN--and two different tender designs at that).

Finally, Southern Railway had one of these engines. . .in excursion service.  This was the former C&O 2716, modified to look like what Southern might have ordered if it couldn't get FT diesels. 

I would have preferred she stayed Chessie, naturally--but you have to admit, this version looked good.

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=2657681

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=2766034

[J3a-614]

Some pix:

C&O:

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=4278184

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3350460

W&LE (NKP dome locations, but different sand box, Box Pok drivers, footboard pilot):

http://railrelicstoday.com/trainpics/steam/wle6413.jpg

http://www.steamlocomotive.com/berkshire/weinstein/wle6414.jpg

[J3a-614]

Pere Marquette (Note, engines with both dome locations were ordered by this road):

http://www.railarchive.net/randomsteam/pm1222.htm

http://www.railpictures.net/photo/306397/

RF&P--traditional dome location but different dome shape, pressed or cast pilot, Automatic Train Control box on pilot beam:

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/rfp/rfp-s571ach.jpg

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/rfp/rfp-s573ach.jpg

[J3a-614]

Virginian Railway--large combined steam and sand dome, much larger tender, C&O low headlight and pilot, but lacking the booster engine used by C&O, making for a large open space behind the trailing truck:

http://abpr.railfan.net/abprphoto.cgi?//december98/12-06-98/ns1283.jpg

http://www.steamlocomotive.com/berkshire/vgn507.jpg

[J3a-614]

We'll close out with the machine that started this discussion--the Nickel Plate version, in this case the operational 765:

http://www.railpictures.net/photo/578807/

http://www.railpictures.net/photo/565700/

http://www.railpictures.net/photo/556558/

http://www.railpictures.net/photo/547014/

[tl7734]

The boiler details like the steam dome and sand boxes are glued to the shell.  I tried to pop one out and cracked the shell.  I wanted to save that piece, but ended up just cutting it near flush and patched the hole.  The filed and re-detailed that area.

It would be nice to get an unassembled shell.  But, I've never seen them offered before.

[Dakota7820]

Thanks for the info, and really enjoyed the pics.

While on the discussion of 2-8-4s, I've wondered something....why might a railroad order a 2-8-4 for fast freights in preference to a 4-8-4? So many lines seemed to prefer the Northern type for high speed freight power, but I cannot think of a anyone that was better at steam powered fast freights than the Nickel Plate and their famous 2-8-4s. Evidently they saw no advantage, as they owned not a single Northern, and kept ordering Berkshires instead. An interesting thought to me.

[Desertdweller]

All other factors being equal, a 2-8-4 should produce greater tractive effort than a 4-8-4, because it has more weight on drivers.

Les

[Trainman203]

Here's a good reason  for that king size sand dome to be removable.  To make a model of this exceptionally good looking engine:

https://www.google.com/search?sclient=tablet-gws&site=&source=hp&q=missouri+pacific+2-8-4&oq=missouri+pacific+2-8-4&gs_l=tablet-gws.3..0i22i30k1.3375.16570.0.17608.24.16.1.7.7.0.446.3256.0j7j4j2j1.14.0....0...1c.1.64.tablet-gws..2.22.3299...0j0j0i131k1.RS_D410TLlo#imgrc=JXEQp40lj282nM%3A

MoPac must not have been happy with them, all 20 of them were home rebuilt into 4-8-4s during WW ll.  5 more of them on the I-GN down in Texas stayed 2-8-4s to the end though.  They were not liked by the crews, there was a long article in Classic Trains by a retired MoP engineer about how rough they rode.

[Dakota7820]

That Missouri Pacific 2-8-4 is actually pretty close to the look I was going for. I plan to have oil tenders on mine, like the one on Santa Fe 3751.

[J3a-614]

I suspect the Missouri Pacific and International-Great Northern engines rode poorly because of fairly large cylinders with relatively small drivers.  Those engines, in common with earlier 2-8-4s such as the prototype Lima A-1 demonstrator, ran on 63-inch drivers, the same size used under the Bachmann 2-8-0.  The later engines, such as all those Van Sweringen locomotives (NKP, C&O, VGN, etc.) ran on 69 or 70 inch drivers. 

That extra six inches in driver size allowed better counterbalancing and reduced overall machinery speeds at a given operating speed, which would improve riding qualities.  In the case of the C&O T-1 2-10-4, lengthening the stroke to 34 inches (also used on the 2-8-4s that were designed from it) would counteract the effect of the tendency of the taller drivers to reduce tractive effort by providing better leverage. 

Taller drivers--and a four wheel lead truck for better stability at speed--would have greatly improved riding qualities and reduced rail stress for those MP 2-8-4s--and it did.

C&O  2-10-4--the seed from which came the NKP 2-8-4 and all the variations--and which didn't look at all like the engines that just preceded it.  And note where the steam and sand domes are:

http://www.steamlocomotive.com/texas/co3000-laws.jpg

http://www.american-rails.com/images/CO30092104.jpg

The T-1, as many here know, was copied by the Pennsy in WW II.  However, PRR insisted on placing its own look on the engines, partially out of standardization (cast steel pilot with a drop coupler, semi-streamlined cab, also used on other engines), and partially for conditions on their road (I'm thinking that's the reason for the PRR tenders on this locomotive and others, long enough for the needed capacity but low enough to fit under water cranes that had been installed 20 or more years earlier for engines with small, lower tenders).

http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com/images/j1_6454.jpg

http://www.prrho.com/images/J1-Texas_PRR6154.jpg

Yet these engines, as different as they looked, shared machinery dimensions to the inch.

[Dakota7820]

The C&O T1 is one of the finest looking 2-10-4s in my opinion. A shame none were saved.