Codes and wheels/couplers too

[Deland]

 I'm new so be gentle. I'm looking to upgrade some cheap rolling stock. It will never be detailed to Model status but should make some decent runners. I'm looking for wheels and seeing code # on them. I'm assuming they correspond to the track code? From what I can ascertain, most freight cars under 100,000 will use 33 in wheels and passenger cars and larger weight rated frights will use 36 in.

So once I replace the wheels I'll want better couplers and some have horn hooks so I would like to put knuckle style on them. How do I determine which couplers to use. I found the Kadee conversion but know that on these lowend cars there may be differences. also, are coupler boxes required for converting from truck mounted to body mounted couplers?

[Hunt]

. . . I'm looking for wheels and seeing code # on them. I'm assuming they correspond to the track code?

Track Code and Wheel Code have no relationship.

Track Code is the height of the rail in one thousands of a inch. Track Code 100 is .100"

Wheel Code is the width of the wheels in one thousands of an inch. The commonly found Code 110 wheels are .110" wide. 

[Deland]

 Thank you Hunt. That means any wheel will work but some will look more prototypical.

[jbrock27]

De, you are correct, most freight cars utilize 33" wheels.  Newer ones that carry more load, 36".  Sometimes it depends on the tonnage of the trucks as well.  For simplicity and standards, many  people stick with 33" for all, instead of having to purchase 33s and 36s.  Some model cars, even cheapies, have info printed on the car that have that kind of info and will point you to wheel size  direction.  I found a chart, if you would like, let me know and I can forward that info to you.  Also you can get into either smooth back or ribbed back, style wheel-sets.  We can save that discussion for later but basically old, old ones were ribbed until they were banned from the RR.

Re: wheel sets and trucks:  What makers trucks are you using or plan on using?  How about wheel-set maker(s)?  While some here may not acknowledge this, different makers wheel-sets work better or not, with certain makers trucks.  Getting the right  match is worth the effort.

Re: couplers and boxes:  I prefer to install Kadee coupler boxes and either Kadee or Bachmann EZ Mate Mark II couplers and not put a Kadee coupler on a talgo style truck.  To me, if you are going to go through the effort to change the couplers, go the whole 9 yards.  You will need some tools to do this and a Kadee Coupler Height Gauge (it works for all couplers btw).  I prefer the #206 bc it is plastic and if you have power on the rails when you put it there, nothing will go "poof".  The type of Kadee coupler will also determine the Kadee box type.  Popular Kadee couplers I use are: #5s and #148s.  They each take a different box and have different requirements.  The 5s take a #232 draft gear box and the #148s and EZ Mate Mark IIs take a #242.  The #5s also need a bronze centering spring to go in the box, which is a little more difficult than using the #148s or EZ Mate Mark IIs that have "whiskers".

I you want the run down on the list of tools which includes a pins vise, screws, 2-56 tap, Truck Tuning Tool and drill bits, to mention a few,  just ask

[Deland]

doctorwayne, nice work. I'm no where near that advanced but have to start somewhere. I picked up 3-4 $3-4 cars at a local train show a couple of weeks ago just to start building skill on. I also had a couple I had given to me so I have a couple Bachmann, a couple Tyco, and at least one lifelike. It's an hour drive to a train shop so I guess the best idea is to pick up the mentioned coupler boxes and couplers to start and just dig in. I did buy a coupler height guage in plastic. I do need to find a good pin vise and tap. I'm going to guess these weren't your first try.
 
  Are there good or bad brands of pin vise?
 
  I do know metal wheels and axles are the better choice in most cases but don't know much beyond that. If either of you care to make a suggestion? I have a ton (Literally) of tools but because I was an industrial mechanic for 40 years, most are a bit heavy for the HO and a bit light for prototype work. My big issue is going to be to refine my techniques to the size. I appreciate any help/ guidance you give.

[jbrock27]

Yes, there are good and bad pin vises, lol!.  Ask me how I know

Good job on getting the #206.

I would make a suggestion on wheel sets, but see my question first, above, about what trucks you plan to use.

For tap, I bought the 2-56 Kadee one that also comes with 2 bits.

I suggest also getting a foam engine cradle to work on both cars and locos.  You can find them for a good price at a place like AMAZON.

[jbrock27]

Wayne also makes good tool suggestions.

I should have taken Sid's advice and bought the set of 4 pins vises when I was looking, from Micro Mark .  Instead, I found a set of 4 black steel ones on AMAZON that had almost 100 Reviews, the large % of which were good, so I bought them and for a few years they worked great. Then, I noticed the one size I used for 1/16" bits and the 2-56 tap would not hold the work straight anymore.  Now, to me, that is not so critical for making holes with bits, but when it comes to tapping, it should be straight as possible. 
So I searched again for a replacement, again finding 1 on AMAZON that had 4 out of 5 reviewers give it 5 stars.  I even asked purchasers if it had held up and all responses were positive, so I bought it and it came last night.  Well, it looked great, well made of aluminum, swivel head and 3 jaws just like a drill.  But, ever so slightly, it does not hold work perfectly straight, if you look close, you can see the slight "drift".  At least it was only $7.35 and came with 10 small drill bits and the seller is offering either a full refund on return (to China, I don't think I will be doing that) or a $2 refund.  The first set of 4 was only $7 so altogether, I am not out a King's Ransom, but it is a bit of annoyance to not be able to find one that holds the work straight and I don't consider myself having OCD.
I have heard Starrett pin vises are the best, but am not going to pay that kind of dough.  Also heard good things about Kadee pin vises but myself, don't like the idea of having the jaws at either end, can see that digging into my top finger that is holding the vise while using it.   And, as noted above, heard good things about Micro Mark's pin vises. 
So to summarize, I am still searching myself...     

[Len]

I've used pin vices from several sources, and finally went with the ones made by Zona. You can buy sets of others for the price of one Zona, but they stay straight, hold up well, and come in a variety of types and sizes.

Len

[Deland]

 Thanks for the advice guys. I have a coupler height guage, good screwdrivers, several sets of needle nose pliers and mini needle nose, a few pairs of tweezers, a Dremel, a couple of sets of needle files, an Exacto set or two and a mini vise. Some black roadbed track that I plan on mounting to a solid surface to make a purpose built check station for couplers and checking truck movement. I'm thinking drilling a couple of holes in the base and inserting dowels so I can determine if the car rock too much. If the top of the car rocks enough to touch the dowel on either side, the car has too much play in the trucks. I will invest in a scale so I can properly weight cars also. And an engine cradle.

I'm thinking I will use the original trucks on these unless they are damaged but probably will remount with the plugged pin hole and a 2-56 screw, like suggested in  a thread I saw last night.. Are there any brands of trucks to suggest or to stay away from? I'm seeing many who claim metal wheelsets are the way to go, but I defer to the people with experience to guide me.

jbrock, I would appreciate the chart.Don't know how best to get it from you though.

Any advice on how to get the couplers centered and how critical is that? I'm assuming that it makes a difference to how the car will work.
 
 Again, thanks to all who respond with help/advice. I'm sure it will save me money and effort.

[jbrock27]

finally went with the ones made by Zona.

Len

Thanks Len.  I am guessing you got them from Walthers?  How would you compare them to Micro Mark's?  Starrett's? I saw them (the Zonas) listed when I was on there today to try to get info on those wheel sets I had been asking about (the one where the entire Thread got deleted ) using the number and info you provided.  As per usual, Walthers is out of stock and I will have to check back in couple of weeks to get the axle length.

De, I will forward the chart to you through a PM here, later.  Good use of the steel track   Digital scale can be found at a place like Big Lots or Ocean State Job Lot.  Rocking usually comes from where the truck meets the bolster, not being evenly filed.  If you hold the car upside down with the trucks on it, you will be able to see if the trucks are on plane or if they are too far forward, too far back, too far left or too far right.  Filing the bolster where needed helps cure this.

What is the make of the "original" trucks you intend to use?  I asked because (see what I first said about trucks and wheel sets) .  I can say this:  Accurail trucks work well with Kadee  and Intermountain wheel sets; Athearn trucks work well with Intermountain wheel sets, Bachmann (non Talgo) trucks work well with P2K (delrin axle) wheel sets, Walthers trucks work well with P2K (delrin axle) wheel sets, Tichy trucks work well with Intermountain wheel sets.

Yes, you should get the coupler boxes as centered as possible.  By eyeing things up, using points on the shell of the car for reference, this should be easy to do.

Glad to help where I can

[Deland]

 Well, I did pick up a Zona pin vise, some #5 And #148 couplers and boxes a tap and a spare(lol). I also got an assortment of 2-56 screws and some nuts(just in case). Now I'm ready as soon as I can see a bit better. I had cataract surgery 12 days ago and my sight is better but wont be tops until the 18th when I get my new prescription. That gives me some time to clear a worktable and get some decent lighting ready.

Since I have a HF a few miles away, I'll probably get a scale from them(I usually have a coupon since I buy some consumables thru them). For anyone that does have a Harbor Freight nearby, they usually have a special on multi meters where you get one free with a purchase. You'll need to sign up with their e-mail and print the coupon. It's not a top line meter but would get a guy by to troubleshoot track and check voltages and such until he could step up to a better one. I have a Craftsman (Fluke knock off) from my days as a working stiff.

[electrical whiz kid]

Deland;
When you get taps, get three-to start.  I don't think you will regret it.  Brock also suggests three (several?) bits.  Also a wise move.  A couple of good squares won't hurt.  There are several styles of Dremel moto-tools; you might want to check these out as well.

Rich C.

[jbrock27]

Good suggestions Rich.  Way back when, I was smart enough to order some tiny drill bits from Micro Mark to use in the pin vises as well.

I neglected to mention, Kadee Trip Pin Pliers also come in handy from time to time.

De, you'll have to tell me how you like that Zona pin vise.  A speedy recovery to you as well

[Deland]

 OK guys, just updated the first one. It was a Lifelike and actually had casting marks where the new coupler boxes needed to be so they were easy to center. Other than cutting off the Talgo's( truck mounted couplers) It was an easy first go. I do need to get the wheel tuning tool but my local shop didn't have any in stock. I did run into one other minor issue, the 2-56 screws I got, I didn't check and when I went to install one, I found they were hex head rather than phillips. I don't know what size it is but it's small. Anyone know? I'll probably get some phillips and that's what I expected from the ones I got since all the screws I've run into have been.

jbrock, I have to recommend you get a Zona pin vise. I've only used one a few times on other stuff but this has got to be one of the best. The only thing I wish it did have would be a deeper "pocket" for the shank of the bit, but the action and ease was enough to offset that. I think I gave about $8-9 at my shop. In fact on my next trip I think I'll get a second Zona so I don't have to swap from bit to tap and back.

I did learn one thing that wasn't mentioned, maybe because you guys have enough experience to not break an Exacto blade when cutting Talgos off. But the small envelopes the couplers, washers and such come in are just right to use to hold broken blades to keep them from cutting the trash bag.

[Len]

jbrock - I got almost all of my original Zona tools at the LHS my repair shop was colocated with. Since it closed, I use either Walthers or Amazon for additional, or replacement, Zona tools. I go with whichever one has them on sale.

Deland - I get my 2-56 Phillips head screws in bulk from Micro-Fasteners. I prefer the pan head screws:

http://www.microfasteners.com/search.php?mode=search&page=1

Len