need your help Determining the correct wheel size for

[flywelder]

Hi, I have a used  bachman  heavy duty  / heavy load hauling flat car.
it reads on the side: Louisville and Nashville 24562
it has 4 trucks. and a red plastic frame.
The present wheels and axles are plastic.
It rolls pretty well except that both trucks closest to the middle of the car, frequently derail when  crossing a switch or crossing, or it the car is placed any where in the train other than  very close to the end of the train.  and I want to correct that.
I have replaced the axles and wheels of the inside trucks with new plastic types but still little improvement.
I also glued metal BBs to the underside for added weight, which I think helped some as the derailments are not as frequent after doing so......,
and I don't think I should add still more weight?...as the car now weighs 4 oz.
can i safely add more weight?..but how much more?
So I am thinking of installing metal wheels and axles on the two inside trucks,  in hopes that will help or correct the problem,
but I don't know and can't find  info to tell me for sure if  this car needs 33" or 36" wheels, or just what size.?
Can any one help by telling me which?
and I welcome your suggestions and cures for the derailing issue.

[jward]

can all 4 trucks rock a bit in every direction? how about the span bolsters connecting the tricks? does everything pivot freely or does it hang up? does this car derail at the same spot(s) all the time or does it derail at random spots? have you checqued the wheels to see if they are in guage?

[jbrock27]

Wow!  You really made out like a bandit at the train show.

Agree, check the wheel gauge.  Have a NMRA gauge tool to do that? 

For weight, the NMRA standard is 1 oz + .5 oz for every inch of car length.  Don't think weight is the issue here as my esteemed colleague has alluded to.

[flywelder]

To answer:
yes everything moves and pivots and rocks freely, nothing  hangs up.
Car derails at several spots, and all spots are at random. with the exception to that being  the  60 deg. crossing.where it always de rails.
Have NOT checked wheels to be in gauge.  I Will do when I purchase the said  gauge checker. I had no prior knowledge of this tool's existence.
Am i going to use this gauge to check the distance BETWEEN wheels or the ind. wheel height?
Is there a certain model No# gauge I should shop for  to check  the 33" wheels?  or is there just one gauge for HO scale trains?

Much appreciative of your sharing the weight rule, that will be very useful.  

[jward]

the NMRA standards guage has what appears to be two small nicks along one edge. if a wheelset is properly adjusted, th flanges will both fit in these nicks. if they don't, the wheelset is out of guage and should be replaced.

[jbrock27]

One that says it is for HO, like this:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/121887319040?ul_noapp=true&chn=ps&lpid=82

Shop around, I just posted this to give you an example of what one looks like.  It has many other uses: checking coupler height and checking turnouts/switches.

Question: If you are still rolling plastic flanged wheel sets on this car, have you checked the flanges to see if there are any out of round spots or plastic missing from the flange?

[Len]

Walthers has them on sale at the moment:

http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/98-1

Len

[jbrock27]

Good shopping Len!

[flywelder]

Here is a update for you all, on my issue. I have the gauge now. All wheels and flanges check  out to be spot on and no issues.   
I found  one of the span bolsters to appear to me,  to have  excessive movement / or  play,  when compared to the other one on the frame.    I removed some of this  'play',  and now the car rolls down the track and over every crossing with no issues. ! hurrah!  problem is solved.
My thanks to each of you for your ideas and guidance!...they each educated me, and guided me to understanding better,  HO rolling stock, track, and to look closely at the wheels and span bolster and how important it's function is on this toy.   

[jbrock27]

Glad that you solved it.  Also glad to help and be able to provide you with some info at the same time 

How did you go about removing the "play"?  Maybe you can teach the rest of us a thing or two.

[electrical whiz kid]

About trucks:
One thing I have learned (the hard way, of course) is that little or no attention is paid to the plane of the bolster, as opposed to the mating plane of the truck.  If one or the other is out of kilter, the car will run cock-eyed, not necessarily to the discerning eye of the operator.  When this problem is in evidence, the trucks will run misaligned, making the wheels prone to lift, causing a derailment.  This situation is exacerbated with an articulated truck arrangement.
Craftsman car kits are prone to this action, because the bolster is usually attached to the frame/body, and the truck then screwed to the bolster; and if a poor assemblage occurs, then problems can occur. 
I don't think it would take a math genius, but rather a good eye and taking one's time to visually check for this, and taking a file to the part for remedy.  sight down the body length-wise, as well as cross-wise for proper level.
Ideally, taking a level surface, like a granite QC block and an indicator mounted on an adjustable fixture, and just site that way.

Rich C.

[Len]

A set of machinist squares, like these http://www.micromark.com/steel-machinists-squares-set-of-3,8406.html are handy for these types of checks. As well as many other things around the layout.

You can often find them at 'flea markets' and yard sales. Beware of similar looking sets sold as 'new' in the $10 range. I learned the hard way, their "squareness" isn't always 90 degrees.

Len

[electrical whiz kid]

Len;
In any industry requiring exacting (.004 or better) tolerances, you will usually find a set of "Jo Blocks" in the QC office; not sure of the pronunciation there.  These are the last word in checking measuring devices; as well as field checking what might be a good gauge, square, etc.
You are really correct about the used tools.  Browsing around a flea market in Plainville, Ct, I found a couple of micrometers, one B&S, and one Starrett; a Starrett "Last Word" Dial indicator, a screw-wheel set of dividers, and more-for the royal ransom of five dollars for the lot!!
I still stand by my B&S dial indicator!! 

Rich C. 

[Len]

Rich - Technically they are "gauge block sets", invented by Carl Edvard Johansson, hence "Johansson Blocks" or "Jo Blocks" for short. They normally come in a set of 30 blocks, varying in thickness and length. The blocks are about 0.98uin shorter than the length stamped on them to allow for a slight film of lubricant on them in use. Amazing the things you learn about going to a Vocational-Technical school, rather than a regular high school.

My 'Jo Blocks' and good squares were in transit due to a job move when I picked up a cheap set of squares at a local 5 & 10 store for about $8. It turned out they were out of square one way or the other by almost 1/2 degree.

Len

[electrical whiz kid]

Len;
That is sad about the discrepancy on the blocks..   I am with you 100% on the school issue.  While I never attended vocational school (parents expected "mine son the doctor"...You know how that ends out, eh?  Yeah right...badly). 
Fortunately, I found myself in ground equipment repair school in the Air Force.  Spent five years in what was to become the base for an outstanding and very rewarding electrical career.  I won't speak ill of college-just that it wasn't for me.
One question though:  As I remember 5&10 cent stores, (Woolworth, Kreszge, etc), how did you come upon jo blocks there?

Rich C.