Need some professional advice

[jbrock27]

Just making a point here; this is why doing research thru literature, on the net, is important and invaluable and should be done before purchasing.

[Hunt]

Stanley,
As you get into the details of JMRI Decoder Pro,  you will note it cannot be used with the Bachmann E-Z Command Control Center.

[Mr Mechanic]

I had done some research on the engines before I bought them, BUT, my research consisted of reading the comments of people that bought them and ALL that I read, people were happy with them, the only negative comment was from one person that said "it is a little noisy". I probably would have never found out that sound and non sound don't play well together. I joined this forum and started reading if I could find why I am having problems after I was told by Bachmann that there was nothing wrong with the unit that I thought was defective. Only then, from the comments from all the wonderful people here, I found out what was happening with my trains. Do other manufacturers of trains have sound and non sound units that work well together? Do they have non sound DCC that don't hum. I guess it comes down to......you get what you pay for. I am very happy with Bachmann trains and the price I pay for them. They seem to be engineered very good, as good as the 35 or so year old Athearn engines that I have. The price to pay for another controller, just to equalize the engines and never be touched again, will be a lot more than spending the money to buy boards to put in them. I turn my trains on and let them run.

[brokenrail]

no, it just seems a waste of money to buy a sound unit then take the sound out over what is essentially a programming issue. I would imagine somebody at the local model railroad club would be willing to adjust the cvs for you if you asked. I can understand the frustration with the motor noise in the non sound unit so a replacement of that decoder should solve that issue. the nce bach-dsl decoder was mentioned. are you aware that this decoder is meant to be hardwired into the locomotive, not plugged into an 8 pin receptacle? a decoder with an 8 pin plug would work better for you.

Here we go again.

JMRI DecoderPro.   It will program any decoder and you do not need to know what the CVs are, you just tell JMRI DecoderPro what to do and it already knows the CVs.

Cheers

Roger T.

[Mr Mechanic]

Ok brokenrail and rogetra, you say to use JMRI DecoderPro to reprogram the decoder, but Hunt says that it will not work with the E-Z Command that I have, I'm back to just replacing the boards. I went on the JMRI web site and it does not list the E-Z Command as a controller that it will work with.

[AGSB]

Even if you replace both boards, that is no guarantee that the two engines will work together as one unit without the need to tweak some CVs controlling the speed curves.

Also have you considered that you should make a "consist" so that when the controller sends a command both engines respond to the command at the same time without having to send a command to one and then the same command to the other.

Also, one engine is going to have to operate in reverse compared to the other engine. This is going to require a change in a CV value.

If JMRI won't work with the EZ Command, then get yourself a Sprog II, that would be way cheaper than 2 new decoders.

[jbrock27]

I had done some research on the engines before I bought them.

I don't question you had done some research, just how thorough and complete it was.  And for DCC it is not just about research on the locos.  And there are more sources of info than this forum.  I happen to like Athearn locos myself.
Best of luck.

[jward]

honestly, I don't understand what you think you are going to accomplish by replacing the boards.

everybody here has told you that the cvs need to be adjusted. the problem here isn't that sound and non sound don't play well together. the problem is that you are not listening to what people are telling you to do. and that you will find that you will have spent a small fortune on replacement decoders and still not solve the problem.  the McKeesport model railroad club is right down the road on walnut street (rt 148) in McKeesport. they meet Tuesday and thursday evenings. for petes sake, take your two locomotives down there and see if somebody will adjust the cvs for you. problem solved, lesson learned.

[Mr Mechanic]

I have been listening to everyone...buy another controlled or take them to get adjusted. I have asked "IF" I have them adjusted, will the hum go away in the non sound unit. How close do they need to be to run a consist? I have a F7A and F7B units that I run a consist and have no problems, I can disconnect them,put them about a foot apart and they will stay that way. I want to change the boards to get rid of the hum, buzz, or what ever you call it. It has been said here that "they are cheap Bachmann boards that causes the noise. I looked into the SPROG units mentioned, I only looked at one retailer for the price and for the SPROG 2 $98.99 which only puts 12volt to the track and the SPROG 3 which puts 18volt to the track, same as the E-Z Command, and it costs $124.99 no shipping cost added. I can get 3 boards delivered to my door for $65.78, a good bit less than buying another controller. I still need the question answered, will the hum go away if the CVs are set? I did extensive research on the DCC Controllers and came to the conclusion that I didn't need to "adjust" anything for the little setup that I have. I trusted the manufacturer to sell me trains that would run and ones that are sold should be compatible with each other. You purchase a F a+b unit, you would expect them to be able to run together. Mr. moderator, does Bachmann tweak, say the F a+b units, to be run together, because someone buying them would no doubt want to run them together? I am listening to everyone here, the main reason for changing the boards is to get rid of that noise and I am going to contact NCE and ask the question, if I change the boards will the trains run together. And the other question I need answered, how close do they need to be to "consist"? I am listening.

[rogertra]

Ok brokenrail and rogetra, you say to use JMRI DecoderPro to reprogram the decoder, but Hunt says that it will not work with the E-Z Command that I have, I'm back to just replacing the boards. I went on the JMRI web site and it does not list the E-Z Command as a controller that it will work with.

I didn't know JMRI would not work with a low level entry system like E-Z Command.  My apologies.

Cheers

Roger T.

[Hunt]

. . . I still need the question answered, will the hum go away if the CVs are set? . . .

The hum due to motor drive frequency from the non-sound Bachmann decoder cannot be eliminated by CV adjustment.

To eliminate this motor drive noise requires replacing the Bachmann decoder with a decoder using a high frequency pulse width modulation motor drive such as a NCE BACH-DLC decoder or the like. NCE refers to their  high frequency pulse width modulation motor drive as Silent Running motor drive. Other decoder manufacturers of this type of decoder use other labels.

[Hunt]

. . .  does Bachmann tweak, say the F a+b units, to be run together . . .

The Bachmann HO Sound Value equipped
   F7A and F7B
   FA-2 and FB-2
their decoder CVs defaults are set allowing them to run together out of the box baring any locomotive mechanical or other issues.  Looking into the decoder details of these F A – B locomotives you will see the better speed curve is the factory default and the speed curve using CV 5 and CV 6 is disabled. 

[Mr Mechanic]

I Thank you for the replies that I needed, Now you understand why I want to change the decoders, get rid of the noise. I have completely disassembled both of my F7 units, cleaned and used the Labelle lubes in them and am really happy how they run and sound. If they are set from the factory to run as a consist, I have something to compare how 2 should run together. I have sent my questions to NCE about if any setting that will be needed to adjust them after installation or if the will work out of the box and if they will be set close enough to run a consist without adjustment.

[Hunt]

I Thank you for the replies that I needed, Now you understand why I want to change the decoders, get rid of the noise. . . .

You are confusing me with someone else --  I have understood from the start you want to change the Bachmann non- sound decoder to get rid of the noise.

Also,  NCE cannot help since you are using the Bachmann E-Z command Control Center. They expect and intent folks to be using a DCC system capable of changing CVs by user supplied CV number with their decoders.

[Mr Mechanic]

According to the instructions for the NCE decoders, you install them and put it on the track to test run,then,if needed, you can adjust CVs to your liking,needs. If they are quiet and work out of the box,good enough for me. My train platform will never be seen by anyone except for the pictures or videos that I post on Facebook.  It is in a room that is 12X24, so it's not very big. If I understood the noise made by the non sound units, I may never have bought them, but I have them now and want to fix them, just to get rid of the noise. There again, the research I did, the only negative comment was "it is a little noisy", thinking gear noise. The right maintenance and lube, I thought, would take care of that. As far as the difference between the non and sound units, I had done some research after I had the problem and still have not found any information that explains why they don't run together. It was then that I joined this forum that I found out what the problem was from those that have been there and done that. I Thank Everyone again for their time and knowledge.