Max Incline

[Jack TS]

I guess I am a new bee since I have not been active in model rr for over 50 years! Now at 65 I am getting back involved to pass along the fun of the hobby to my 7 yr old grandson. We are building a HO 4 X 8 layout in my garage. Starting off with a Rail Chief set and loco EMD GP40. I was looking at a plan with a 4% incline/decline over 8 feet. I was told this may be too steep for the engine. What would you recommend?
Jack
Destin, Fl.

[jonathan]

Welcome, Jack!

If you are intending a figure 8 track setup on a 4X8 layout, you may be forced into 4% grades to run the trains up and over the lower track.  This will work for your locomotive, if you only plan to run short consists; perhaps 4 or 5 cars behind the loco.

However, little kids, and grown up kids like us, will be drawn to running longer trains, with more cars and locomotives.  Eventually, you will find a 4% grade is steep and the train will not want to make the climb.  A 3% grade is much easier on equipment.  As it happens of course, a company called Woodland Scenics sells precut Styrofoam risers on a 3% grade.  If you are willing to extend your 4X8 to say a 4X9 or 5X8, you could run your grades a bit longer to achieve a 3%  grade.

Bottom line; it's your railroad, and you can make a 4% grade work, if you keep your train lengths short.

Regards,

Jonathan

[Jack TS]

Wow, quick reply. Thanks Jonathan. I will plan on going with the 3%.

[jward]

a locomotive will only pull 1/6 on a 4% grade of what it will pull on the level.

I have used 4% grades successfully, but either run short trains or run more than one locomotive. that said, all locomotives are not created equal. I have a couple which will pull about 12 cars up 4%, and others that will only pull 1 or 2 cars.

with creative planning, it is possible to get an up and over track arrangement in a 4%8 space with 3% grades. instead of the standard figure 8 over and under, consider inverting this into a twice around plan. the track would climb on the first lap, cross over itself on a bridge, then descend to base level on the second lap.

here are some basic formulas which will help you look at track plans and estimate the grade.

4% grade, rise per full section of track is approximately 3/8" and 9 sections are needed to reach 3" in elevation, the minimum needed to bridge another track.

with 3% grade, the rise per section is 1/4" and 12 sections are needed to reach 3"

with 2% grade, the rise per section is 3/16" and 16 sections are needed to reach 3" elevation.

you can look at any published track plan for sectional track, count the number of sections between the points where the tracks cross, and estimate the grade necessary to convert this crossing into an over and under.

hope all this helps.

[jbrock27]

I agree it is a good idea to avoid a 4% grade.  My Bachmann FTA had trouble handling something close to that steep.  Also keep in mind that heavier locos will manange a steeper grade better in terms of the number of cars they will pull than ligther locos will.
Would it be possible for you to expand from your plan of a 4 x 8 to a larger layout?  Even if larger, still a good idea to go w/a lesser grade.

[electrical whiz kid]

Traditionally I have not used grades steeper than 2%.  At least I try not to.  The one lesson I learned-really, really quick, was to NEVER put a grade anywhere you cannot both see and touch.  As in tunnels...  Now, ever since that first "big layout" (the PIA one we all build...), having done my penance big time, I follow the 2% per 100 inches.  This means that in about 8.5 feet, the track will rise 2 inches-not more.  Boy, is it easier!!! 

RIch C.

[jbrock27]

I will add one other thing Jack.  I would not use the old style "horn hook" (X2f) couplers on your cars or locos, on a grade, they perform horribly.  Knuckle couplers set at the correct height using a Kadee Coupler Gauge is the way to go.

[Len]

The EZ-Track and Atlas Graduated Pier sets will give you a grade of roughly 3% on a standard figure-8, using 18" radius curves. The trade off is you'll only have two level sections of track. The 9" straight at the top, and the one directly below it.

JWard's suggestion of a twice-around will get you closer to a 2% grade, which is a major plus if you plan on running longer trains.

Len

[jbrock27]

Just as a point of info, I did use 22" R curves along with 18" ones with my Atlas pier set.  I have mine shaped more like a backwards "S" with it running back under 2 straight trestle sections after it had come back to table top level.  Very happy with the results of the incline and performance of locos on compared to the AHM set used prior to that (that thing looked to be closer to 5% than 4%!!)
Just have to work on the suggestions you and Mr. Ward gave me to improve the look of the railroad ties in mid air.

[electrical whiz kid]

See Mar. 68 MR.  F-3 on track sans roadbed-with a truck off the fences to boot...All of this on the front cover!

[jbrock27]

Yep, found it  (just not able to get a blown up image of the cover).  Well whadya know, hows about that?

PS-Could be an F7, no?

[rogertra]

See Mar. 68 MR.  F-3 on track sans roadbed-with a truck off the fences to boot...All of this on the front cover!

Ha, I see what you mean, derailed front truck.  And look at that poor quality bridge approach.  No support under the tie strip.  The ties laid directly on top of the piers, tsk, tsk.  Very toy train like.  That photo wouldn't rate publication anywhere in the magazine these days, derailment aside.  The modelling just isn't up to par.

Cheers

Roger T.

[Len]

Any idea who's piers are holding up the track in the MR pic? They look sort of like Atlas, but instead of ears over the end of the ties like Atlas uses, there's a 'boss' sticking up between the ties inside the rails. It's not one I'm familiar with. Tyco or Mantua maybe??

Len

[jbrock27]

The Atlas pier set comes with what I would call "tabs" that fit into the "ears" on top of the piers.  The piers outfitted this way can be placed where you need them fitting the "boss" between 2 ties.  The piers with these tabs in them are meant to be placed in between the piers with just the "ears" are being used.
I have always liked the stone/concrete textured look of the gray Atlas piers.  They also take spray paint well.

[richardl]

I guess I am a new bee since I have not been active in model rr for over 50 years! Now at 65 I am getting back involved to pass along the fun of the hobby to my 7 yr old grandson. We are building a HO 4 X 8 layout in my garage. Starting off with a Rail Chief set and loco EMD GP40. I was looking at a plan with a 4% incline/decline over 8 feet. I was told this may be too steep for the engine. What would you recommend?
Jack
Destin, Fl.

Hi Jack

Since you might be around here for a while, get a Photo Bucket account for posting pictures here. Makes trouble shooting much easier at times.
If you have not done it yet, take time to look all around the Bachmann site as there is loads of good info on all kinds of Bachmann products.
Sometimes searching the Bachmann forums for answers can be beneficial. I usually use Google and include bachmann in the question.

http://photobucket.com/

Scroll down to General Questions in the Bachmann forums. There are suggestions on how to do this. A picture is worth a thousand words.
You Tube is good for posting videos.

As the Bach-Man would say, have fun.

Rich