HO SCALE: converting old Lionel set to Bachmann...

[Marlec]

hello!

What do I need to convert an old Lionel train set (mid/end 70's) to Bachmann's "E-Z couplers"

The couplers on the Lionel train set are on the "truck" instead of under the chassis/frame of the car...

http://s49.photobucket.com/user/Martin_Leclerc/media/100_9670_zpsn4uuco8z.jpg.html
http://s49.photobucket.com/user/Martin_Leclerc/media/100_9668_zpseslmhp0b.jpg.html?sort=3&o=2

[jbrock27]

I am not a fan of sticking knuckle couplers whether they be EZ Mate Mark IIs or Kadees, into Talgo style trucks like these are.  So, my suggestion is to mount Kadee coupler boxes to the body of the cars.  You can chose to either then use EZ Mate Mark II couplers in the Kadee box or Kadee couplers, depending on what style coupler box you chose to use. To embark on this great adventure I recommend you get hold of a Kadee Coupler Height Gauge (I like the #206 bc it is insulated in the event you put it on the track with power on).   While many folks use the existing trucks by just cutting off the part that holds the horn hook coupler, I do not.  I prefer to replace the current trucks with regular trucks and buy metal wheel-sets to fit said trucks.  Part of the reason, is using the existing trucks does not allow you any height adjustment at the trucks.  To replace these trucks and create a hole to mount a screw to hold the new trucks in place, you will have a choice of materials.  Some like to fill the bolster hole with epoxy or JB Weld and tap for a 2-56 screw.  I prefer to use 2 sizes of styrenne white tubing, 1 fits the hole, the other piece goes into the first piece, then I tap the styrene for the 2-56 screw.  Model glue works well to glue the styrene.
While you are doing all of this, it is advisable to dissemble the shell and add weight to the cars bc they are under weighted. One of the best methods, cheapest methods is to use a white glue, like Tacky or Elmer's and glue pennies onto the existing car weight as close to directly above where the trucks are as possible.  Look to NMRA standards to get cars to better running weight.
Want to know more, have questions, just ask.

[Marlec]

I'm into miniatures since 1996... but a newbie in train set even if I had a set when I was a kid...

So I'm not scared to use plastic glues, puttys, knifes, files and such...
I'm not the "trowing away" kind of guy...

I'll have to check your explanations... when the kids are asleep...

By the way, what's "NMRA standards"

So best method: replace trucks and mount couplers Under chassis... using a Kadee Heigh gauge... so I might need to add a filler of some kind (plastic card or else) to get the right height for the couplers...

Thanks jbrock27... I'll check things out and see if I'll tackle that project... It is for my 7 years old kid...
I'll keep you posted...

[Len]

Save the old trucks, you can get a couple of dollars for them on e-Bay or Craig's List. There are Lionel HO "collectors" out there looking for original trucks to restore cars they found at flea markets, etc., to "original condition". The reality is, there are only a few Lionel HO locos that are worth anything. Cars generally fall in the used Tyco/Mantua price range.

Over the years I've converted dozens of these cars, and found the following very useful:

Kadee:

262 Low profile Whisker Coupler Draft Gear Box and Lid. Comes in a 10pk, available from Walthers or direct from Kadee if your LHS doesn't carry them.

211 Gear Box Shims. If the car sits too high, place these between the car and coupler box. They were designed for the old #5 coupler box, and have 'ears'. Just use a 262 box as a guide, and trim them off with an X-Acto knife.

208 Red fiber washers .015" thick. Place between truck and car body if it sets too low.

209 Grey fiber washers .010 thick. Same as 208, just a bit thinner.

206 Coupler & trip pin gauge, insulated. The 205 is metal and causes "bad things" to happen if the power is on the track.

256 Acetal Screws 2-56 x 1/2". For mounting boxes to caboose decks where the mounting hole may come through. Easy to clip off the excess flush with the deck top and paint over.

237 Trip Pin Pliars. For adjusting the uncoupling trip pin. Regular needle nose pliars will do in a pinch, but tend to nick the pin. Or you can use round nose jewlers pliars available at most craft shops.

239 5-prong "Gripper". For picking up small parts and starting screws.

Kadee trucks. Listing at http://www.kadee.com/htmbord/HO-Scale%20Trucks.htm
I use them because they're easy to get where I live. I usually swap the wheels out for Intermountains on a caboose, as they are set up for adding lights. Kadee's are not.

Not Kadee:

NMRA HO Standards Gauge. For checking many things, especially wheel gauge. Available from Walthers, item number 98-1.

2-56 Tap. My preference is the one made by K&S Engineering in a T-handle. Available from Walthers, and possible a real hardware store (Forget Lowes & Home Depot).

I've used the JB Weld and styrene tube method of filling in the truck holes. Both work, it's more a matter of preference and how easy it is to get the material in your area.

Len

[Piyer]

NMRA = National Model Railroad Association. Over the past half-century-plus, they have played a key role in the development of standards and recommended practices to help make model railroad items interoperable between manufacturers products. You'll find information about suggested model weights (among other things) on their website: http://www.nmra.org

[Marlec]

I was just checking messages...
thanks for feedbacks... I'll check in détails tonight...

was thinking: am I looking at this the wrong way? I though Lionel didn't exist anymore and found there site last night...

maybe upgrade current Lionel couplers ... are they compatible with Bachmanns E-Z couplers?

[Piyer]

I'm about 90% certain that today's Lionel only makes O-scale and S-scale (American Flyer) models. Their HO-scale line was never a major part of their sales - they were selling a brand, rather than a product.

[Len]

Lionel has changed hands several times, but they're still around. Their HO production lasted 10 years, 1957 - 1967, but they couldn't compete against Atlas, Bachmann, etc., etc., and focused on their O/O-27 lines after 1967.

Original Lionel couplers are the "horn hook" type, which are not compatible with knuckle couplers. Whether EZ-Mate, or anyone else's. Their wheel sets are not very free rolling either, which is why it's best to change to body mount couplers and newer trucks.

Len

[jbrock27]

Save the old trucks, you can get a couple of dollars for them on e-Bay or Craig's List.

If you sell on either of those sites.

The reality is, there are only a few Lionel HO locos that are worth anything. Cars generally fall in the used Tyco/Mantua price range.

Many would agree, as do I.  But this has not stopped me from converting these cars or TYCO, Life Like, old Bachmann, AHM, IHC or Gilbert.  A cost/benefit analysis should be considered as many modern cars can be had for a good price after shopping, with these amenities.

262 Low profile Whisker Coupler Draft Gear Box and Lid. Comes in a 10pk, available from Walthers or direct from Kadee if your LHS doesn't carry them.

211 Gear Box Shims. If the car sits too high, place these between the car and coupler box. They were designed for the old #5 coupler box, and have 'ears'. Just use a 262 box as a guide, and trim them off with an X-Acto knife.

208 Red fiber washers .015" thick. Place between truck and car body if it sets too low.

209 Grey fiber washers .010 thick. Same as 208, just a bit thinner.

Agree

206 Coupler & trip pin gauge, insulated. The 205 is metal and causes "bad things" to happen if the power is on the track.

I am always glad when someone of Len's stature, agrees w/me.

256 Acetal Screws 2-56 x 1/2". For mounting boxes to caboose decks where the mounting hole may come through. Easy to clip off the excess flush with the deck top and paint over.

237 Trip Pin Pliars. For adjusting the uncoupling trip pin. Regular needle nose pliars will do in a pinch, but tend to nick the pin. Or you can use round nose jewlers pliars available at most craft shops.

239 5-prong "Gripper". For picking up small parts and starting screws.

Agree

Kadee trucks. Listing at http://www.kadee.com/htmbord/HO-Scale%20Trucks.htm
I use them because they're easy to get where I live. I usually swap the wheels out for Intermountains on a caboose, as they are set up for adding lights. Kadee's are not.

I find Kadee trucks/wheel-sets to be kinda expensive compared to Accurail trucks (buy depending on type of truck I am seeking) and Kadee wheel-sets which I find to be a better price point.  If I want to live it up, I get Intermountain wheel-sets instead.

NMRA HO Standards Gauge. For checking many things, especially wheel gauge. Available from Walthers, item number 98-1.

Agree, a good tool to have while not entirely necessary to modifying cars.

2-56 Tap. My preference is the one made by K&S Engineering in a T-handle. Available from Walthers, and possible a real hardware store (Forget Lowes & Home Depot).

My preference is a Kadee tap that also comes with 2 drill bits, found for a great price on Ebay.  I would also point out that I find Walthers to be more expensive than Ebay or even AMAZON to find many of the above mentioned items.  Also, sheet styrene can be used in the same manner as the Kadee shims mentioned above, cut to the size needed and comes in varying thicknesses.  I have both styrene and the Kadee shims.

...information about suggested model weights (among other things) on their website: http://www.nmra.org

Marlec, you'll want to check under "Standards".

[Len]

JB - I wasn't disparaging the Lionel cars. Like I said I've converted many of them myself, as well as old Tyco and Mantua cars. I was just trying to make the point they aren't worth a whole lot, in spite of what some people think because they're old and say "Lionel" on them.

I also use other brands of trucks, but I can get the Kadees locally at a pretty good discount, so mainly use them.

"...stature..." I'm only 5'10" tall.

Len

[jbrock27]

JB - I wasn't disparaging the Lionel cars.

Never said or thought you were my good man

"...stature..." I'm only 5'10" tall.

Len

stat·ure: importance or reputation gained by ability or achievement.
"an architect of international stature"
synonyms:   reputation, repute, standing, status, position, prestige, distinction, eminence, preeminence, prominence, importance, influence, note, fame, celebrity, renown, acclaim
"an architect of international stature"

[electrical whiz kid]

Len;
Taps and holders are best if the holder is NOT permanently affixed to the tap-I believe that is to what you infer here.
My "train taps" consist of 00-80, 00-90,  2-56, 4-40, and 6-32.  I have corresponding dies as well. 
I keep a cake of bees wax on hand, and if needed, olive oil; cheap, and available upstairs.  Also, it won't attack plastics.
ABUNDANZA!!

Rich

[electrical whiz kid]

Addendum;
THe beeswax started out in life "de-fuzzing" thread for things like water tanks, etc-until I read a short article by the late Lee Van Devis, about using blackened fine phosphor bronze wire as "lines".  Now it has some other uses.

Rich C.

[Len]

I wasn't infering anything about permantley attached tap handles. I said I use a 2-56 tap in a T-handle holder, such as the one pictured just above the tap here: http://www.ksmetals.com/accessories.html

For some smaller sizes I do have the tap drill and tap semi-permanently set up in double ended pin-vises, with a size label on the them. It saves hunting for and trying to handle almost invisible (to my eyes) drill bits.

I also use bees wax when tapping plastic. For pot metal, brass, etc., I use a drop of light oil. Lighter fluid or kerosene is best for aluminum.

Len

[Marlec]

Wow! i really feel like a Newb...
I have to check every thing so to know what you're all saying... 

I know this project isn't Worth much in terms of $$...
But I'll try to do this for my boy who wants to add my cars to his...