Red rock F9 not working properly

[sedfred]

I have an F9 from the red rock express set that has always worked fine until recently, 2 weeks ago it lost contact on random parts of the track, then last week it just ran slow, it only runs slow now even when the speed controller is turned all the way to the right. my dad took it apart and checked everything, no electrical pickup problems, not dust or hairs. no anything. but it still doesn't work the way i want it. please help! i live in canada so how much money would it cost to send it in to bachmann and get it fixed or replaced? also i have another question, if you buy a train set that has an f7 is it the same quality as the individual ones? like if you buy the royal gorge set with the f7 then buy a separate f7 will they both work just as good? or is the train set stuff always worse?

[ACY]

The F-units sold in Bachmann trains sets are the same quality as the equivalent separately available Bachmann F-units, however for other manufacturers this is not always the case. Granted a Bachmann F unit is not of the best quality compared to products from Bachmann's Spectrum line which are generally very nice locomotives. In most cases the phrase "You get what you pay for" applies, the more you spend for a locomotive the quality generally increases proportionately.

As far as the issue with your locomotive, it could be the wheels or track is dirty, or you could have damaged the unit inadvertently- particularly the motor by having the rheostat turned all the way up for extended periods of time causing it to overheat or otherwise become damaged. If the issue was infact as a result of something such as that, then it would not be covered for warranty repair/replacement.

The best way to proceed would be to call Bachmann service tomorrow and explain your problem. If it is covered for warranty repair, the cost would likely be $25 or $35 (depending on if it has DCC) plus the cost of shipping and the return shipping whatever it comes out to be. If it is within a year of purchase and you have the receipt still, and the issue is found to be covered under warranty the $25 or $35 repair fee would be waived but you would still need to pay postage both ways.

You can reach Bachmann Monday through Friday at 215-533-1600 from 9 AM to 4 PM Eastern time (that is 10 AM to 5 PM Central time).

[jbrock27]

...Bachmann trains sets are the same quality as the equivalent separately available ...units, however for other manufacturers this is not always the case.

Curious; for instance like whom?

BTW, RR Express appears to be a DC set, w/good ole steel track.  I believe rightsaidfred mentioned previously he has been into buying train sets.  Part of the learning process.

[sedfred]

The only time I really turned the knob all the way was when it started acting weird, I have had it for little over a year now with no problems only recently it started having problems, I have handled it well and everything so it couldn't have been caused by damage, I live in ontario canada so how much in total including shipping would it cost to get it fixed? It still runs fine and the headlight is bright but it runs slower than  usual, I am going to lose sleep over this, I will not rest until I find out what is going on and how i can fix it, the wheels are clean and nothing seems to be wrong! I need a really good answer before I go to bed or I will not be able to get any sleep! I do not buy sets anymore, and all my engines work fine regardless of whether they're from a set or not. My 4-8-4 works amazing as well as my 0-6-0 which are both available separately and have good reviews. The only loco I have ever had a problem with is my f9. And only recently it developed these problems. I have heard of people who have had lower quality sets for years and years and they apparently worked fine, I don't think these problems has to do with train sets in general, it seems to have to do with how well it is taken care of, the only problem with my f9 is that it runs slow than usual, and as I have said before, it is apparently perfectly clean.

[Len]

Touch the contacts of a known good 9V battery to the pick up wheels. If the loco runs, the problem is probably the speed control, not the loco. I've seen them go back way more often than the loco.

Len

[sedfred]

My dad did that and one of the axles didn't spin, I think the speed problem might have to do with the electrical pickups on that axle not working for some reason, if it isn't under warranty can i get it fixed for this reason? And how much would it cost including shipping? Remember I live in canada. Also I hope I don't need to be corrected because I am a newbie modeler who doesn't know every proper term. I know a lot about real trains but not so much about models. Also my other locos work fine with the speed controller, but then again there was a time my 0-6-0 went really slow backing up but my f9 worked fine backwards with the same speed controller, my 0-6-0 then worked fine when I used another speed controller. Maybe I should just get another speed controller because there are no visible problems with the f9

[jbrock27]

how long will my locomotives last?...an f9 from the red rock express...all run fine except for the f9 sometimes. it loses power at random parts of the track. this locomotive is very picky about dust and hairs. if i get it cleaned out it works fine.  should i get extra locomotives as spare parts sources in case this happens? can someone tell me how i can prevent locos from falling apart?

saidfred, I hope this doesn't mean you haven't slept since 7:56:31 PM on May 23rd?

I am going to lose sleep over this, I will not rest until I find out what is going on and how i can fix it...I need a really good answer before I go to bed or I will not be able to get any sleep!

Don't let yourself get like this or you will be in for a long time in this hobby

I have had it for little over a year now with no problems only recently it started having problems.

This is the same F9 as mentioned above, no?

Follow Len's suggestion and see what happens.

[jward]

one of the axles didn't spin? nw we are getting somewhere......

is it only one of the axles, or both on the same truck?

can you turn this axle by hand, or is it bound up solid?

does the locomotive seem to be dragging itself around, spinning its wheels? or is the motor running at lower speed?

[sedfred]

i think it was only one axle but it may have been two, i think the axle was on the rear truck but i have to double check.  the headlight is bright and everything but the motor runs slower. the same thing happened to my 0-6-0 once but only in reverse. it ran fine when i used a different power pack and speed controller. i think i need to get a new controller, as much as i like bachmann products it seems their controller or power pack is not great. i think i'll just get a new one from a different company.

[jbrock27]

I luv how my 2 posts recommending a power pack have been deleted   Unreal....

RSF, among the other things that were deleted was my asking if you or dad have taken the shell off the loco to get a good view of the internals?  Do you guys have a multi meter you can check the power pack with?
Do you run the track on top of carpet?

I see in another thread that you note you have not figured out the quote thing.  As such, I will assume you are not aware of the Personal Message system and take this opportunity to tell you I have sent you 2 personal messages.

[sedfred]

my dad does have a multi meter. he has gotten a good view of it and thoroughly checked it, no hairs, no dust, nothing wrong with the electrical pickups. it just runs slow. once again i think the problem is just the power pack. are the bachmann power packs and speed controllers generally considered  quality products or just junk to get you started in the hobby until you can get a better one? i do not run it on a carpet. but my room is filled with dust and hairs, probably from one the dogs.

[JRG1951]

Most of the older F9s that were in train sets were 4 wheel drive. If that is the case it has an inexpensive drive train.
You can look at Bachmann on line and see what type of drive you have.
If it is an older 4 wheel drive unit it has a drive truck that is usually not in stock. You can contact Bachmann and check on repairs. If it is a 4 wheel drive, I would suggest replacing it with a newer locomotive
1. Is this a older 4 wheel drive locomotive?
          A. Does one truck have two axles that turn.
          B. Are there rubber traction tires on the wheels of the other truck.
2. Is this a newer 8 wheel drive locomotive.
          A. Do axles on both trucks will not turn.
          B. There are no traction(rubber) tires on the one of the trucks

The other possible problem could be dirty contacts where the rail joins together. Reset all the rail connections and see it that helps.

Good Luck, John

[James in FL]

Hi sedfred,

You state that your other lokies work fine on this same track with this same power supply, therefore you can eliminate the power supply and rail joiners as possible causes.
The problem is in your lokie, no need just yet for a new power supply.
From Bachmann parts page it appears this lokie is rear wheel (truck) drive.
http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/dwg/dwgs/HOEMDF9DIESEL.pdf

Although both trucks are power pick-up, it appears to me at least one is not working properly.
The wheels on the rear truck will not (should not) turn free, on the front they should.
Check the contact of the wheel wipers on both trucks and also the wire connections from each truck to the motor, your Dad can do these continuity checks with his meter.
Wipers need periodic cleaning, if you have never cleaned them, now is a good time.
Also have him check the voltage at the motor brushes on that rear truck, turn your power supple full power and connect jumper wires from your supply directly to the wheels.
He should have 12v at the brushes.
Also have him put the lokie on the track, again at full power, and check both the voltage and current draw while the lokie runs.
This information will go a long way to finding the root cause of your problem.
Post back his meter readings, and watch him do this, it's a great learning opportunity for you to take advantage of.

[jbrock27]

SF, where did you get this Red Rock Express set from?

PS- I would be willing to wager JRG's extensive TYCO collection, this F9 is not pancake motor driven.

[sedfred]

James in FL, I am going to ask my dad about that tomorrow if there is enough time. So the results may be here tomorrow, Either way this thread will not end until I find the root of the problem. If not sometime on Thursday or the weekend, I will post results as soon as possible. Also I got the set from Dundas valley hobby. So for all of you please keep this thread going until the results are in, even if it takes until the weekend. The engine is 8 wheel drive and is from 2012. It has no traction tires