SP 4-8-4

[baldwinmikado]

I'm looking into getting a sp 4-8-4 made a few years back #58157. It's not dcc and I was wondering how hard it was to convert if anyone has.  If you have converted it could you attach pictures?

[ACY]

The difficulty is dependent on your ability level, in other words it is relative. Chances are if you are asking this question then this installation would probably not be something you want to attempt until you have more experience. Have you hard wired any decoders to install DCC in a locomotive before?

[baldwinmikado]

I haven't actually hard wired a decoder in a locomotive but I have wired pcb boards for projects. I know the general concept to do it (what wires go where and connect to what and how to insulate the motor) I think I can manage it but I just want to know what I'm working with before it actually gets here

[brokemoto]

I did not know that B-mann sold its 4-8-4 in SP.  The B-mann 4-8-4 is based on a ATSF prototype.   Con-Cor sold an SP 4-8-4.  It was a GS-4 shell on a GN S-2 chassis.  The Daylight version was pretty good.  C-C also sold it in black, but the lettering font is incorrect.  The C-C 4-8-4 is a mediocre runner.  For a list price of three hundred bananas, you expect better than mediocre. 

Kato sells a GS-4 in Daylight.  I forget if they issued it in black.  By all reports, the Kato is a pretty good runner, but there have been reports of problems.

[baldwinmikado]

Yeah neither did i. I'm not exactly sure when they stopped the production in the sp road name but I know the model is a few years old. I'm not ocd about details or of how accurate it is to a prototype gs1 especially since it's in n scale. I've been a Santa fe and southern pacific  guy for years and my past ho layouts have all been sf. I figured if Ima start a new layout in n scale, I'd go for sp especially since it's easier to find rolling stock and locomotives for. I had just never done dcc to an n scale locomotive before. I have for ho but n scale is much smaller and fiddly. I just want to make sure I do it right since it's so small and probably isn't set up for dcc plug and play. Look up bachmann 58157 to see it on google images.

[spookshow]

I would stay away from it if it's anything but the latest version (the one with the split-frame chassis) -



It doesn't look like installing a decoder would be too terribly difficult. Just wire it up between the motor contacts and the motor itself. It looks like the decoder could be placed in the cab, or possibly up in that notch on top of the chassis.

Information on the various versions here - http://www.spookshow.net/loco/bach484.html

Cheers,
-Mark

[ACY]

I thought maybe you were infact referring to the Kato or Con-Cor model but didn't want to bring them up since this is a Bachmann forum. I have never seen a Bachmann Southern Pacific GS-4 so I didn't even know it existed.

I don't think there is much of an advantage of installing DCC in this particular model, unless you are set on only running DCC on your layout.

[brokemoto]

I thought maybe you were infact referring to the Kato or Con-Cor model but didn't want to bring them up since this is a Bachmann forum.

B-mann is tolerant of discussing other manufacturers' products here-to a point.   It is not as tolerant as Atlas used to be on its forum, where Atlas considered it acceptable to start and keep up topics on this or that product of another manufacturer.  On a recent topic, in which there were more than a few mentions of products of other manufacturers, the Moderators did post a subtle hint that some of us were pushing the limit.  While it did not prove ultimately to be a topic killer, there were only a few more posts to that topic.  This is not a complaint, mind you, it is an observation.  Even I understand that this is B-mann's Forum, thus, it can make and enforce any rules that it wants to.

At any rate, on to the topic at hand.

I can not quite tell from the photograph, as I do not own the recent edition of the B-mann 4-8-4, but it does appear that Spookshow has posted a photograph of a recent edition B-mann 4-8-4 lettered for SP.  The 4404 number is in the SP's GS-series.   The only version of the B-mann 4-8-4 that I own is the older version with the half wheels live tender.  It is not the best runner.   As I do not run much large steam anymore, I have not bought any of the later versions of this one.  Those who have bought it have stated that it is much better than the previous versions.   As Spookshow tells us, to learn more, check out his website.  It is an invaluable source of information on N scale equipment.

The only similarities between the ATSF and an SP GS series are the wheel arrangement and the prototype's burning oil.  The drivers may be similar in size, but I am not sure.  While I do know my SP steam, my knowledge of ATSF steam is severely limited.

[James in FL]

A couple of thoughts...

The latest version runs very strong.
You will need to isolate the motor.
You will probably want to add tender pick-up.
Looks like an old school hardwire, unless a new Spectrum Vandy tender can be adapted.
I don't know if that's possible, I don't have a spectrum Vandy tender to try but would be something I'd look into.
Drawbar will need looked at.
Also looks like the headlight bulb will need sorted out, maybe change to a LED.
Constant 12v from the decoder may get that bulb hot. Don't know, may be a non-issue, I don't do DCC but I would check voltage to it anyway.

Richmond Controls makes a tender pick-up kit, if a spectrum Vandy tender is not an option or not adaptable.
http://www.richmondcontrols.com/

All in all, DCC conversion looks doable, labor intensive, but doable.

A google search might provide a tutorial.
Maybe YouTube.

http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/dwg/dwgs/58157.pdf


Good luck

[spookshow]

Yes, now that I think about it, mine was indeed an SP (with Vandy tender). I don't have it anymore, but I'm pretty sure it was the #BA-58157 model that the OP indicated that he was looking into acquiring. And unless Bachmann has been recycling catalog numbers, it should be the most recent production version.

Cheers,
-Mark

[ACY]

And unless Bachmann has been recycling catalog numbers, it should be the most recent production version.

Item #58157 appears to correspond to an older run. I was looking at item numbers and it appears that this engine is from the last run before Bachmann upgraded the model. Further research on the internet confirmed that this model was made was previous to when the improvements were implemented.
MSRP on the new models is $175.00, MSRP on the last run which also has the upgrades was $155.00, MSRP on the run previous to this was about $140 (unclear if this has the upgrades but not relevant), and the MSRP for the Southern Pacific engine was $121.00 which means it is not the new and improved version because this is quite old.

[gatrhumpy]

I have done this DCC conversion and it was not that difficult.

[spookshow]

And unless Bachmann has been recycling catalog numbers, it should be the most recent production version.

Item #58157 appears to correspond to an older run. I was looking at item numbers and it appears that this engine is from the last run before Bachmann upgraded the model. Further research on the internet confirmed that this model was made was previous to when the improvements were implemented.
MSRP on the new models is $175.00, MSRP on the last run which also has the upgrades was $155.00, MSRP on the run previous to this was about $140 (unclear if this has the upgrades but not relevant), and the MSRP for the Southern Pacific engine was $121.00 which means it is not the new and improved version because this is quite old.

Sorry, I guess I should have been more clear. The SP model (#58157) that I tested had the most recent (2004) version of the mechanism (as evidenced by my photo), but may not represent the absolute latest production run. Starting in 2012, Bachmann improved some of the shell detailing on their Northern, and that SP model may have pre-dated those changes. But since I'm mainly concerned that the OP gets a model with the latest internals, it's not really important which specific production run it came from - just so long as it was produced after 2004.

Going through my old (pre-2004) Walthers catalogs, I see ATSF, Reading, CB&Q, GN and UP 4-8-4's, but no SP's. So, I think it's safe to assume that anything labeled #58157 is going to have the newest version of the mechanism (although perhaps not the newest version of the shell).

Cheers,
-Mark

[ACY]

Going through my old (pre-2004) Walthers catalogs, I see ATSF, Reading, CB&Q, GN and UP 4-8-4's, but no SP's. So, I think it's safe to assume that anything labeled #58157 is going to have the newest version of the mechanism (although perhaps not the newest version of the shell).

Mark what years did you check? I have some old Walthers catalogs as well and can check mine if there are some years you don't have between 1997-2007. And thank you for the clarification between the mechanical and the ascetic/cosmetic upgrades. 

[spookshow]

Going through my old (pre-2004) Walthers catalogs, I see ATSF, Reading, CB&Q, GN and UP 4-8-4's, but no SP's. So, I think it's safe to assume that anything labeled #58157 is going to have the newest version of the mechanism (although perhaps not the newest version of the shell).

Mark what years did you check? I have some old Walthers catalogs as well and can check mine if there are some years you don't have between 1997-2007. And thank you for the clarification between the mechanical and the ascetic/cosmetic upgrades. 

The SP Northern (58157) is listed in my 2005, 2007 and 2008 catalogs. It is not listed in any of my earlier catalogs (2002, 1999, 1998, 1997, 1994, 1993, 1989, 1988, 1986, 1985, 1982).

Cheers,
-Mark