EMD NW2

[jward]

after I got my pre-ordered c636s I am not happy and there will be no c415s in my future unless done by somebody else. I can get a much more durable and useable locomotive from Bachmann for half the cost.

[jward]

that is why you make a tr2 cow-calf set. nobody makes the calf unit since athearn discontinued theirs. also, there were several phases of nw2, so the possibility exists to do a different version from others. the tr2 was a cow calf version of the nw2.

[jbrock27]

I agree those motors will run for ever with proper maintenance and care.  Very easy to break down, clean and work on as well.  Parts still plentiful as well.

[jward]

True Athearn did make them and many .They can still be found today since they made them for so man years and flooded the market.They are built to last there you can say made in USA.I think they are semi scale with the wide hoods.THey still look great when you put a set of AMB lazer cut glass in them and paint the molded glass seals.Those motors will run forever.I dont think the Bachmann going to do those since they have there new Alcos S series switchers that seems to be a great success for them that they just keep on putting ou more paint schemes every year it seems since they came out.You have yours yet?                                       Jay

I have an s4 but not an s2.

as for the athearns, while they built a durable product that was simple to work on with readily available parts, older athearns have a major drawback when I comes to dcc. their electrical pickup system relies way too much on metal  that can't be readily soldered to. they run well on dc, but if you've ever converted one to dcc you've immediately seen how finicky the pickups are. you can work around these issues, but it takes a lot of work. a particular vexing problem is that one side of the circuit relies on the weight of the chassis on the truck bolsters to make contact, and neither metals are particularly good conductors. in order to bypass these problems you have to completely redo the pickup system bypassing the bolsters with wire, as well as replacing the sintered metal wheels with something with better conductivity. and even after all that, you still have a body with odd proportions.

[jbrock27]

Please define "older".

While alot of the above is true and I agree with it, not all of the above is necessarily true.

[jward]

older- blue box

those are the ones with the flaky pickups.

they are also well known for their extra width hoods. only the dash 2s, the gp50 and the gp60 had scale width hoods. the gp50 and gp60 also suffer from incorrect frame sills.

[Len]

Aside from the electrical pickup and hood width issues, the Athearn Cow/Calf locos were SW7's, not NW2/TR2's being asked for.

Len

[jbrock27]

blue box

those are the ones with the flaky pickups.

I know you know better than this; "Blue Box" spanned decades; so which ones?  Are you saying all of them?

[jward]

yes. all of them, at least up to the mid 1990s. they all have these issues. the early p2ks are a refined version of the blue box athearns, their upgrades eliminated most of the pickup issues.

[jward]

Aside from the electrical pickup and hood width issues, the Athearn Cow/Calf locos were SW7's, not NW2/TR2's being asked for.

Len

you are correct, the athearns were a sw7/tr4/ but what is an sw7 but an nw2 with a larger engine? it was an intermediate model, like the emd f2. the first units designed for 1200 hp from the ground up were the sw9s.

tha athearn calf also has some inaccuracies, like the stepwells on the rear of the unit that weren't present on the real ones.

[jbrock27]

yes. all of them, at least up to the mid 1990s. they all have these issues. the early p2ks are a refined version of the blue box athearns, their upgrades eliminated most of the pickup issues.

Thank you for clarifying.  I do think it funny you lump all the Blue Boxes together as though they are the same, bc I know you know that as the years progressed, there were changes and improvements made to them which differentiated one model series form the other, just like Bachmann has done.  The '90s is when they stopped making them and began calling them the RTRs.  And they employed a lot of the same pickup methods as the latest variants of the Blue Box and never heard of  pickup complaints over them.  I have never experienced any either.
But here is where I disagree with you; you have previously cited this issue with the truck contact at the pivot point on the truck center plate where it contacts the frame, but I have never heard anyone anywhere else cite this same issue.  The "pin" and surrounding  area is supposed to be bare of paint.  Did ones you have trouble with, have paint instead of bare metal in those spots?  If that is/was the case, then taking some emery paper to remove the paint would leave bare metal for better contact.  Same goes for lube on either the truck center plate or pin on the frame-there should not be any there to interfere with electrical contact.
It is also not entirely true that it is solely the weight of the chassis that determines the contact on the truck-the worm gear cover helps to keep the truck on the frame in that position so the truck center plate fits under the pin.  
You make it sound like an insurmountable job to rectify any conductivity issue.  I bet more people would be able to successfully take apart and work on their Athearn than would attempt to work on their contemporary Bachmann loco.  Even if for some reason, there were contact issues, these problems are easily solved by soldering wire to the brass rivet on the metal plate that makes up one truck half (it has long since been common practice to ditch the metal spring clip that runs across the top of the motor and replace it with wires connected or soldered to tops of the trucks where the spring clip was making contact).  
You had said yourself, the bronze axle bearing set up was a good one for conductivity.  
I know no one who would be foolish enough to try to solder to the caste frame; the clip in the front, for the headlight would be the best place to solder at the "frame".
At one time, I thought as you, and were buying n/s silver wheels to replace the stock sintered ones, even though I knew the trade-off would be in traction .  I frankly never found any difference in pickup, but anyway, I bought n/s wheels until I came across this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFxTNI-HILc&list=UUB-KsS42MHohZ3V37zOPgmA

I don't have a drill press, so I used "grandpa's drill" upside down in a wood vise, set to run in reverse.  Following these instructions, you would think you are looking n/s silver wheels when you are done!  Please see how in this video, DCC running is no problem for this loco.
So with a modicum of effort, you can see these can be made to run well.
As far as detail flaws, I can't imagine Bachmann doesn't have their share and am surprised you are not as quick to point those out.
One additional work around they do have that you did not mention, is getting the height correct for a coupler box and knuckle coupler.  As they are, it's not usually possible w/o some modification.

And before there is any misunderstanding, I don't advocate converting the "old" Blue Boxes with the grey metal flywheels and metal truck side frames.   Only those with the gold "can" motor and plastic truck side frames, after testing has been done for Amp draw.

[jward]

while athearn did make improvements over the years, the electrical pickup remained pretty much the same. the only major difference I noticed was that the older athearns had metal truck sideframes with bushings that picked up power and transferred it to the bolster. the later ones, which also had the gold motors, the wheel bushings mounted on the axles between the wheels and axle gear. in both cases, the power from one side of the circuit goes through a metal bracket mounted on the truck, and the other side of the circuit is through the bolster. neither the bracket, nor the chassis is of a solderable metal. in fact, the bracket and metal bar that conducts power from the trucks to the motor are steel similar to black roadbed ez track. my workaround for these was to drill and tap  the bracket, the internal side plate in the trucks, and the chassis for a brass 2-56 screw, to which wires could be soldered for much more reliable pickup.

for many years, athearns modified with Ernst gear sets to slow them down were the standard locomotives on my railroad. thus you can imagine my dismay when  I found that they performed erratically on my railroad on dcc. I am not rich, and dcc was a huge investment for me. my railroads have often been in less than perfect environments, not the climate controlled, purpose built rooms you see in the magazines. they operate under test lab conditions, mine are real world. I've dealt with smokers, high humidity, dust, and wild temperature swings among other things. through all this the athearns performed admirably, until dcc that is. about the time I bought my dcc system, I also bought a Bachmann dcc "gp50" for my son for Christmas. even without flywheels, it proved a better performer than my erratic blue box locomotives.

as for the Bachmann stuff, you probably haven't noticed but I always refer to a particular locomotive as a "gp50"......that is because the model bears little resemblance to an actual gp50, lacking the taller radiator grills that protrude from the body, and the anticlimbers on the ends. as such, it is an odd hybrids that loosely resembles the high hood gp40s built for the Norfolk and western more than an actual gp50.

[electrical whiz kid]

A "cow and calf" was produced in the late 60s by (I believe) Athearn. 
SGT C.

[jward]

as was pointed out before, obscure prototypes don't necessarily translate to better sales. I think Bachmann learned that with the e33 electric. beautiful model, but it sat on dealer shelves for years.

you can buy a brass t6 for probably less than you could buy a new plastic one, I paid $60 for mine. add in the cost of a decoder and decals, and my total cost if still less than the cost of a Bachmann s4.

[jward]

mine is all original. alco models I believe. my friend has one that he modified by using the hood and cab on an atlas s4 chassis. it runs well but doesn't look quite right so I left mine as is.