Spectrum 2-6-2 'Prarrie' Wanted

[r.cprmier]

Wow; did THis post turn a corner!!  Praries to Messerschmidts! 

I am not 100% sure, but I think the Prarie type engine was THE ONE type the New Haven did not roster-unless you count the SR&RL-of which the New Haven was a major stockholder, if not owner outright.

Gut Morgen, Mien Herren...

Reichardt

[Atlantic Central]

Andre,

I agree somewhat. But quanity does mean something in a historical context when other wheel arangements of that time period where being built in numbers like:

2-8-0 - 33,000

4-6-0 - 17,000

4-4-0 - 25,000

By the time the Northern was even developed, the railroads where in a whole different situation from a historical point of view. While developed in the 30's, most of the "famous" and best Northerns where not built until the 40's, a time when diesels where already on the horizon, not in the hey day of railroad construction and expansion.

As for the number of lines that owned Prairies, you proved my point for me. You list eight out of about 400 railroads that existed at that time. Virtually all of which had the three wheel arangements listed above.

Sheldon

[SteamGene]

Surely not in an Emil, Roger!
Gene

[rogertra]

Gene.

Possibly a "Kurfürst", 1700 built and saw action in the west.

[SteamGene]

Ja, ich weiss.  Perhaps we need to turn this to the Bf-110s of the Lokomotivstaffel?  Or just ground them all! 
Gene

[rogertra]

Gene.

In CFS3, I'm a dab hand with the BF110 both as an escort during the BoB , Spitfires watch out!  :-), and attacking American day bombers.

However, for night fighing I much prefer the Do. 217.  Not a favourite among my flying buddies due to it's low speed and somewhat unstable floght performance, it's easy to get into an unrecoverable spin,  but I feel right at home with it and come back with pretty good scores.  10+ kills in one night is not unusual.  :-)

[Woody Elmore]

Let me interrupt this Luftwaffe discussion with a comment about the MDCc Santa Fe 2-6-2. A friend picked up a kit at a swap meet and rebuilt it with a can motor. Granted the boiler was a bit clunky looking but the engine was a really nice running model. A decent paint job will go a long way in disguising the spartan boiler. He later did the same to a MDC consolidation.

These MDC engines still run flawlessy after many years of operation. Engines like were all there were before the great RTR models that are being imported now and people had to build kit engines.

[Len]

To get things a bit back on track (no pun intended):

Maybe the 2-6-2's were a niche loco, so were the Y6a's & Y6b's. That doesn't mean people (like myself, and others with small layouts) won't buy them if a decent one is produced.

Len

[Atlantic Central]

Len,

I don't disagree, but from an economic standpoint it would make more sense for the model manufacturers to invest in locos with the broadest possible appeal. That is where the 2-6-2 falls short.

Example: Bachmann 2-8-0 - while not 'spot on" for every prototype it is lettered for, it is close, and is a model of a class/wheel arangement of loco that was very common. After all these years Bachmann has no problem selling more - proof it was a good choice.

I believe that a modern, large boilered Ten Wheeler would sell just as well as the 2-8-0. It too was a common type on most roads and lasted nearly to the end of steam on many of them. Both facts give it a large appeal to the greatest number of modelers (not to mention the obvious small layout concern I have preached for years).

And, the fact remains that 2-8-0's, 2-8-2's, 4-6-0's and 4-6-2's where the working "fleet" of North American Railroads from 1900 to the end of steam. These locos are all under represented in the available models - what a shame in these days of such high quality and detail at afordable prices.

Sheldon

[SteamGene]

Sheldon is absolutely correct about the work horses of the 20th Century.  He's also correct that we don't have great models for most of them.  Let's not forget that the Atlantic - 4-4-2 was widely used, even to the end of steam, especially on branch lines and commuter trains. 

I really find it hard to picture a 2-10-2 or a 2-6-6-6 on a 4x8 layout. 
Gene'

[Atlantic Central]

Yes Gene,

Atlantics are one of my favorites, I left them out only because they where not as numerous as the others - and I did not want to be accused of having my own rare "favorite'.

While very usefull and long lasting on most roads, there where only about 1,900 Atlantics built.

The four types I mentioned accounted for nearly 90,000 locomotives - more than half of aproximately 165,000 steam locomotives ever built in North America!

Articulated locos of all types combined can be counted in the low thousands, but we have lots of models of those! - Not to mentions those pesky Northerns of which there was only about 1000.

Twice as many Atlantics as Northerns, shame the models available don't reflect that.

Sheldon

[andrechapelon]

As for the number of lines that owned Prairies, you proved my point for me. You list eight out of about 400 railroads that existed at that time. Virtually all of which had the three wheel arangements listed above.

Sheldon

On the contrary. The railroads I listed (except for Wabash) were among the largest Class 1's (I would have also listed IC, but its single example was converted to a 4-6-2 within a short time, unlike Santa Fe which converted 4 Pacifics to Prairies in the late 20's). In the West, the ATSF, NP, MILW and GN are pretty popular prototypes, so a Prairie would not be be out of place.

In any case, a small Prairie of the type used by shortlines and logging RR's would be quite at home on a layout with sharp curves.

Andre

[r.cprmier]

After thinking at length about this large locomotive issue, I think that the possibility of psychological appeal is a pretty good-sized factor to consider.  The reason I say this is that the idea of controlling something with a lot of power appeals to most people.  Take a look at the cars on the road, the "McMansions", etc.  I am not saying that this is the sole reason for owning a Santa Fe (God firbid, I just convicted myself...), but I believe it it is a substantial reason.  Think about how you feel about even controlling a 2-8-0, knowing full well what these prototypical machines were capable of doing  and actually making them "perform" for you.  it does smack of a bit of appeal.  It is part of the human psyche and mostly harmless, as well as a good means of achieving that need.

I think the manufacturers are also aware of this, and the track record of sales is a point to ponder.  You said it yourself; a disproportionate number of articulateds per the number of prototype actually produced.  Would the same result be had by producing  the same number of "smaller" engines?  I don't know.  I am no shrink, just a guy with a thought, but I think it is one to consider.

Rich

[rogertra]

Sheldon wrote" -

"Articulated locos of all types combined can be counted in the low thousands, but we have lots of models of those! - Not to mentions those pesky Northerns of which there was only about 1000."

And many of those 1000 Northerns were in Canada.  :-)

I believe the CNR rostered the largest number on any single road with 150 on the books.

The second largest in number, the Chicago, Rock Island & Pacific with 85  never even came close and number three,  the Atchison, Topeka & Santa Fe with 65 had less than half the number CNR rostered.

CNR subsiduary the Grand Trunk Western had 43.

The CNR with 150 and the GTW with 43 equals 193 engines of "CNR" style Northerns or just under 20% of Northern production.

So come on Bachmann, lets be having a CNR Northerm,  :-)

[Woody Elmore]

I think the success of the PFM Santa Fe 2-8-0 years ago was the appeal it had. It was a small engine and, although it was SF prototype, could have a few easy changes (like a tender swap) to make it more generic. Same for their B&O 2-8-0. That is why the Bachmann 2-8-0 does so well. This wheel arrangement was more or less universal.

I have written here a number of times that Bachmann would do well to produce a Wabash F class mogul. These engines were small and were often double headed but they were as plain jane as they come. They also ran into the 1950s so they can be mixed with first generation diesels.

What I see with persons starting out in the hobby is the rush to get things big engines and lots of cars. All bought with no planning.