how detailed will the ho usra 2-8-2 be?

[J3a-614]

As to Canadian National USRA light 2-10-2s with Southern valve gear--well, they had them!  It was not a large class--only 10 locomotives, built by Alco in 1919 for Boston & Albany (NYC subsidiary company), purchased second-hand in 1928, and renumbered to 4200-4209 in class T-3-a.

Yes and no.  Yes, the 10 members of the T-3-a class number 4200 - 4209 were purchased in 1928 from the B&A and were shopped by the CNR being equipped with Elesco feedwater heaters and all weather cabs and with their tenders modified to match the all weather cab.  However, they were not equipped with Southern valve gear but with Baker valve gear.

Cheers

Roger T.

Well, I have to admit, I thought I had Roger, but now I'm not so sure.

The B&A engines were built with Southern valve gear; it shows up quite plainly in both builder's photos and in service shots on the B&A.  And at first glance, it looks like Southern gear in both of the CN shots I have--BUT--

On closer examination, there are differences in the valve gear hanger, and there are lap and lead levers present that aren't in any Southern configuration I've seen.  In the small black and white shot it doesn't look like there's the horizontal curved guide that's a principle component of Southern motion.  On the other hand, both photos seem to show the two vertical levers that are part of Southern gear, and it almost looks like the horizontal curved guide is visible in the color shot (oh, how for once we wish we had a dirty locomotive that would show more details!)

On the other hand that valve gear hanger doesn't look like anything else I've seen for Baker, and the lap and lead levers on one of the engines connects from behind the crosshead, suggesting an arrangement for an early application, such as on N&W 475:

http://www.railpictures.net/images/d1/1/3/3/8133.1241486317.jpg

Southern 630 has Southern gear:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-E7deJKOjezs/T0bxJRe-8kI/AAAAAAAAAWA/SjgD-voGkr4/s1600/DSCN0119.JPG

Which makes me wonder--just what are we looking at?  Those double links suggest Southern, but Roger insists it's Baker, and the lap and lead levers suggest it, too.

One thing is certain--whether this is a Baker conversion or some modification by CN to Southern, this is not what the engines were delivered with.  

That makes sense.  Southern gear had issues with lateral stability, particularly in high speed operations.  The valve gear was noted for changing its timing when an engine would go into a curve and heel over on its springs, and it was not uncommon for the whole gear to spring itself out of shape at speed, necessitating a trip to the shop.  Most applications of it were to relatively low-speed applications, such as these 2-10-2s and to East Broad Top's later 2-8-2s.  

A notable exception was New Haven, which had Southern gear on some of its USRA light 4-8-2s.  These engines were in fast freight service, but also had relatively tall drivers, so maybe machinery speeds were low enough to prevent some of the problems that other roads had.

Now if Roger can dig up some better pix of CN 4200-4209. . . .he's got me curious!

[electrical whiz kid]

Jerry;
I may be mistaken, but I believe all of the New Haven 4-8-2s were equipped with Southern valve gear.  The NH had a pretty diverse range of equipment, but with exceptions, mostly were kept consistent within classes, if for no other reason, then for relative ease in maintenance.
Rich (SGT C)

[MilwaukeeRoadfan261]

The pre-production model looks good. Can't wait to see what the production model will look like with all the details and a nice coat of paint. Any pics of the center headlight Union Pacific version?

[rogertra]

J3a-614

Here's a photo of CNR 4205, one of the ten B&A engines purchased in 1928, shown here in Montreal and I believe it shows that it does have Southern valve gear.



Cheers

Roger T.

[rogertra]

And here is a clearer photo of engine 4204 in Quebec City clearly showing it does have Southern gear.

I've been reliably informed the T-3-a were one of only two CNR subclasses with Southern Gear.




Cheers

Roger T.

[J3a-614]

I've been reliably informed the T-3-a were one of only two CNR subclasses with Southern Gear.

Cheers

Roger T.

You learn something new every day!  Would have thought the T-3-a would have been the only Southern motion engines in Canada because of their being purchased second hand, and now I wonder what the other class was!  

It's equally amazing, at least to me, that two of these machines survived to 1961:

(SteamLocomotive.Com)"Numbers 4200-4209 bought from the Boston & Albany in 1928. Ex B&A numbers 1100-1109. Numbers 4200 -4209 scrapped as follows: 4205 & 4208 in 1955, 4200 & 4202 in 1956, 4201 & 4206 in 1957, 4203 & 4204 in 1958 and 4207 & 4309 in 1961."

[J3a-614]

I think I may have found the reason for the confusion between Baker and Southern gear.

CN had those 10 2-10-2s purchased second-hand from B&A in 1928 with Southern gear in class T-3-a

And Central of Vermont had a series of 2-10-4s built with Baker gear in 1928, in class T-3a--and Central of Vermont was a CN subsidiary:

http://www.images.technomuses.ca/index.php?en/stories/central_vermont/b/page/1/popupimage/CN002116

http://www.railarchive.net/randomsteam/cv705.htm

http://www.steamlocomotive.com/texas/cv700-laws.jpg

Hrrrumph, this isn't the only time a railroad had weird classifications.  Burlington put both 2-8-2s and 4-8-4s in Class O, and C&O had a number of classes that covered more than one wheel arrangement, among them 4-6-0s and 4-6-2s in class F, 2-8-2s and 2-8-4s in class K, and 2-6-6-2s, 2-8-8-2s, and 2-6-6-6s all in class H.

[ebtnut]

Seems like every road had it's own approach to loco classes.  Some, like the Burlington, based the class on the number of drivers, i.e., eight drivers are all class O.  Some roads just started at A and worked their way down the alphabet.  The Santa Fe used the number of the first loco in a particular group of locos - 3776 class 4-8-4's.  The B&O classed their locos by wheel arrangement - a class B was a 4-6-0; a 2-8-0, class E; an 0-8-0, class L.  Their articulateds combined the types - The EL-3's are 2-8-8-0's, and E plus and L.