Vintage Bachman Steam Engine Axle

[Chessie Brakeman]

Does ANYONE have a "Fix" for the wheels falling off vintage 4-8-4 Bachman Steam Engines?  Literally Hundreds of Junk Bachman Vintage era Locomotives are flooding eBay each week, to unsuspecting buyers like me, and most all of these locomotives appear to be having wheel problems or broken nylon axels.  Does anyone (3rd Party) have replacement parts?  I have nearly $400.00 invested in "Mint Condition Old Stock" Bachman 4-8-4 Locomotives that do not run.  Bachman no longer stocks axels for the mass amount of locomotives being sold. Nearly All eBay sellers state "Returns not accepted".  I sincerely appreciate anyone offering a solution.  There apparently are hundreds or thousands of Bachman Vintage Locomotives out there that have wheel problems.

[WoundedBear]

You have almost answered your own question.

Curious as to why you think Bachmann should be responsible for keeping stock for OOP obsolete models?

The simplest solution would seem to be to quit buying Ebay junk. If you're addicted to Ebay, then secondly, I wouldn't buy anything from anyone that says "no returns" in the ad. BTW....terms such as Vintage, Mint Old Stock and Classic should be queues to run the other way.

Thirdly.....go look at NWSL.....they may have the bits and pieces needed to cobble together a replacement axle assembly. It may take some ingenuity on your part as well.

I wish you luck in your hunt, and thanks for pointing out the foibles of Ebay to everyone here.

Sid

[Chessie Brakeman]

Sid:  Thanks for your prompt reply.  There are no hobby shops near where I live, but another post on the forum pointed me in the direction of NWSL for parts.  Perhaps I was misunderstood,  I didn't expect Bachman to keep parts for OOP Obsolete Models.  No more than I would expect Chevrolet to stock parts for vintage corvettes.  I was hopeful that perhaps a current model axle would be a mod or upgrade and fit my vintage trains.  I don't know if Bachman has kept track of how many trains they have made over the years, but there is a definite market for vintage Bachman parts out there.  And like many other "Vintage, Old Stock, and Classic" Collectables, they always have a "Holy Grail" or "Crown Jewel" that stood out over the years.  The Bachman 4-8-4's  I bet even Bachman has some of theirs displayed in a hallway or meeting room, somewhere.  Pretty much like this rare find on MSN earlier this week.  1969 Chevy Camaro SS: Rare Finds:   (http://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/enthusiasts/1969-chevy-camaro-ss-rare-finds/ar-AA9QGEX)  .  But a gazillion Camaro's are restored every year from parts from somewhere.  You see, Age is not necessarily queues to run the other way.  If it were, I'd be in a nursing home.  My Bachman trains (12 in all) came from a certified estate sale, and they had never been run.  A collector just bought them 40+ years ago, for display and if you've ever seen one of the Mint condition Vintage un-opened Bachman's and held it in your hands, Bachman's truly are a piece of model railroad history. Unfortunately, even sealed in the original box, the nylon axle deteriorates with time.  Hopefully someone will one day 3rd party parts for vintage Bachman's. Wish you the best in all that you do sir.  Thanks Again.

[jbrock27]

Well said Sid.  I agree with 99.9999% of what you said.  The exception; the foibles of Ebay are as much about the uninformed, uneducated Buyer as they are about the ills of the Sellers on the site.  I like CB, do not have a reliable, well stock LHS close by, so I have to shop the alternatives, but I do my best to protect myself by putting in the time, reading closely and doing the research beforehand.

Hopefully someone will one day 3rd party parts for vintage Bachman's.

CB, outside of having a successful search on NWSL as Sid suggested, I would not hold my breadth on that.

[jward]

I wonder if it would be possible to 3d print replacement parts. would there be patent issues with Bachmann or other proprietary issues for something that hasn't been made in many years? would there be issues in scanning the original into a file that can be printed? how well would a 3d printed part hold up under the rigors of daily running?

[James in FL]

Repairing cracked nylon gears is possible, I would prefer new gears, but sometimes that's not possible, and you have to implement a fix.
Cracked gears usually occur because the fit between the gear and the axle is too tight (friction fit) and over time the nylon simply fatigues, and/or the nylon dries out making it brittle (mostly both).
Certain degreasers may accelerate this drying out.

One I have used, to varying degrees of success, is to add a brass sleeve to the shoulder of the gear (if possible) then Loctite the sleeve in place.
This requires brass tubing reamed to fit over the nylon gears shoulder, the more precise you can make the fit, the better your result will be.
It requires a lot of effort, and usually (to me) not worth it, unless restoring a prized lokie.
I no longer have access to a lathe, but my best and most successful repair to date.
Now you have to consider the implications of this fix, is there enough clearance between the sleeve, and outside diameter, and everything else?
Usually yes, not a problem, but something that must be considered.

Something I tried but didn't work so well, mind you, I work in N scale.
Removing the gear from the axle, lightly clamping, to close the crack, and touching the fissure with a soldering iron.
This works with varying degrees of success but not a viable long term solution.
If the crack extends to the outer perimeter of the gear, lokie will still have a slight hitch noticeable at very low speed.
This is short time fix and the nylon is just too brittle, it will break again at the melt.
Longest survivor was about a year, and I babied it with load.
Stress kills over time.

Delrin has replaced nylon for the most part, as it is more flexible and forgiving.
Most every manufacturer has changed over.

Rapid prototype printing may be alternative I have not explored.
This maybe something to explore as RPP is now capable to use several type of media to fabricate parts.
You may check out shapeways, to see what they have to offer.
I have not kept up with the newest latest greatest technology as to what material can be printed, I would expect FUD and nylon is now old school and new materials and technologies (resolution) are here now.
Wear is an issue.
Measure the gear wanted with bore diameter, over all diameter, and tooth count and see what NWSL has to offer.
Better yet call them;

NorthWest Short Line
PO Box 1349
Hamilton, MT 59840 USA

Phone (406) 375-7555
Fax (406)-375-7559

Last alternative is eBay for a donor, and then you get an old lokie with old gears subject to the same problems.
To me, not a viable solution to the problem.

As far as patent or copyright infringement;
I would suspect any patent or copyright on a nylon gear has long expired, I may be wrong.
You can check this.
Unless someone can prove you are making a profit off someone else's patent or copyright you have nothing to fear.
Money is the key, is it worth the monetary value to pursue it worth the cause?
If it's for your personal use, and you make no profit, you will not be served with a cease and desist order.
Corporate lawyers are expensive, they have bigger fish to fry.

[jbrock27]

What would the cost be for a 3D Printer?

[ACY]

What would the cost be for a 3D Printer?

A 3D printer to manufacturer the replacement part would likely run in the two thousand dollar range for a very basic model. This does not include the cost of the software needed to design and produce the part which would be in the thousands of dollars generally at a minimum. However if you know someone or a company who hasone you can probably pay them to use it but unless you know someone high up it is doubtful you can gain use to their 3D printer. Professional model 3D printers cost upwards of fifteen thousand dollars.

[WoundedBear]

ACY.....

You need to update your intel on 3D printers. Have you seen the Velleman? Micromark was selling them and sold out so fast it was amazing. They're here on this site for under 600 bucks. Even this basic printer should be capable of printing the axle parts with a fine enough resolution.

http://www.matterhackers.com/store/printer-kits/velleman-k8200-3d-printer-kit

Sid

[JerryB]

It's pretty easy to find a CAD operator who will do the design work required for 3D printing, and there are numerous individuals and companies providing printing services to order. Here is a link to one of the more well known and popular:

http://www.shapeways.com/

Note that Shapeways even have a model trains page:

http://www.shapeways.com/miniatures/model-trains

Now the bad news: You would really need to do (or have done) some careful analysis for the gear you would like to have made. The most common plastics that are printed are rather weak, and probably not directly useful for a highly stressed part like a gear. There are lots of options for 3D print materials, but each has plusses and minuses, and require some analysis of the desired results.

Another possibility that is commonly used is to print the part in plastic, then cast it in a harder material, even including various metals. Lots of available options.

If I was pursuing this, I would probably look into using a metal hub, then print the gear directly onto the hub using one of the plastics that are recommended for service as wear surfaces.

Sounds complicated, but actually can be done pretty easily without purchasing either the CAD system or the printer!

BTW, many home machinists are capable of making a gear. Ask around.

Note that none of the above addresses cost. Just a rough guess, but I would think that a single gear would possibly cost somewhat more than an entire new chassis or maybe even a whole new engine.

Happy RRing,

Jerry

[Chessie Brakeman]

(James in Florida):  I think you have several options that may be do-able.  Worth puttering around anyway.  I'm going to Florida for a week and will try the brass tubing trick when I return. 
Thank You Sir, I sincerely appreciate your help.
Darrell

[Chessie Brakeman]

Thanks everyone for recommending NWSL for a possible solution.  They told me today that they recommended using their steel rods and drilling the ends, which for a 3mm rod would be tricky.  Think I will work with brass tubing as suggested in the post by James from Florida.  Worth a try anyway
I also agree that finding a vintage "donor" would only postpone the inevitable and I really don't want to go that route.  I'll try the brass tubing and if that isn't satisfactory, I'll go with the steel rod and find a local home-based machine shop.
Thanks again, I appreciate all the responses.
Darrell

[ACY]

I wasn't aware the prices had gone down that much. My information is from a while ago when these were still state of the art and much newer technology. Sorry I am using my phone and am otherwise without internet so that is why I didn't double check the figures I posted.

[rogertra]

Sorry but I have to ask.

Is this effort really required for a locomotive that is not "vintage", it's an older Bachmann model and its value, in dollars at least, is negligible.  I mean, the discussion is going on about having 3D parts made.  This is not the crown jewels, it's an old, pre Spectrum, Bachmann steam loco.  And that is the politest way I can describe it.

If it has sentimental value, as that's all it's really worth, clean it up, make it look good and put it on a shelf.

I'm afraid the forth word, in your second sentence, in your original post really sums up what this loco is, sadly, worth.

By best advice in the future, is don't buy anything that's not Spectrum.  That is Bachmann's best product and almost always worth the money.

Cheers

Roger T.

[jbrock27]

I appreciate my point being picked up on.