two possible repair issues

[doug1976]

Good afternoon, I have a pair of Spectrum locomotives, both of which are several years old, and both have potential repair issues I wanted to ask about before potentially sending them off for service.  Both are N scale.

One is an Spectrum EMD SD-45 Diesel which cannot stay on the rails.  It will derail on 19 inch radius, as the back set of wheels comes off, especially most often the very last wheel.  I have run much longer locomotives, including a Kato Amtrak set across the exact track and it has never derailed, no matter what speed, so I know the track is sufficient.  I have watched it closely and it seems to happen most frequently on left curves, but occasionally it will survive that curve only to be undone by a wider right turn with an easement.  I should mention all my 180 degree portions of the layout include a 28" radius easement prior to getting into the 19" section.  I am at a loss for why this loco cannot stay on the tracks.  I use Kato Unitrack, which I believe is Code 80, but this locomotive has only ever run on this track and I have never had any real issues with it.

My second locomotive is a Spectrum 2-8-0 Consolidation.  This locomotive runs well, and runs down to speeds around 30 or so on the pack with no issues, a bit slower perhaps it will stall out.  The issue with this one is that it appears to smell wrong.  After running no more than a minute or two it almost smells like it is burning, or an ozone smell coming from it.  I don't like to run this very long as I don't want to burn it out, but perhaps this is normal and the locomotive hasn't completed its initial running period when you buy them.  This locomotive has been on a shelf a while, and I don't think I broke it in completely before we moved houses after I bought it.

It looks like the prices to send these guys in is 45 a piece, and the diesel was purchased for only 70 so almost not worth the cost of repair and shipping. 

I am not very good at fixing mechanical stuff, so anything that is going to be too complex, particularly with a soldering iron is out for me.  Any ideas?

[ACY]

Check your SD-45 to see if the rear wheel is out of gauge or if it is loose or not installed correctly. If this is not your problem then you will probably either have to pay the money and send it in for repair. As far as the consolidation goes it sounds like it may have an electrical issue perhaps on the board or otherwise.
However you can call Bachmann during normal business hours to make arrangements for their repair.

[Bucksco]

You should contact the Bachmann Service department at (215) 533-1600 and ask for the service manager.

[James in FL]

Hi doug1976,

It looks like the prices to send these guys in is 45 a piece, and the diesel was purchased for only 70 so almost not worth the cost of repair and shipping.  

I am not very good at fixing mechanical stuff, so anything that is going to be too complex, particularly with a soldering iron is out for me.  Any ideas?

You have to break eggs to make mayonnaise.
It's a good place to learn and SOP for proper periodic maintenance.

Before you start look here to familiarize yourself with the lokies;

http://www.spookshow.net/loco/spectrumsd45.html

http://www.spookshow.net/loco/spec280.html

http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/references.php


On the SD-45 –
Sounds to me like something is going on in that rear truck, it's possible it's not pivoting freely.
Check this with the lokie upside down cradled, also check that the truck frames are seated properly, and the truck is seated in the frame.
Use magnification if necessary.
If it checks out OK, then remove the shell and run it, paying close attention to the rear truck around the curves, you will probably be able to see what's going on with it.
Check the condition of the lube while you're in there, it may need cleaning and re-lube.
Report back on this.

On the 2-8-0 –
Tools needed are a small jewelers Philips screw driver and a sewing needle, so not a very complicated procedure.
Does it feel hot after run for that few minutes or so?
That smell may be burning off lube at the brushes on the commutator.
I suspect the lube may have hardened and it may need a cleaning and re-lube, or perhaps some lint/fibers are caught up in the drive linkage causing a strain on the motor.
To do this, remove the shell and separate the tender.
Again under some magnification, inspect all places where the linkage pivots, i.e. crank pins, cross heads, etc.
Use a sewing needle to probe around at those points and remove any foreign materials.
Next degrease the entire mechanism, you do not need any further dis-assembly beyond removing the shell.
My weapon of choice is CRC® electrical grade QD (quick dry) Contact Cleaner no. 02130 available from the big box home improvement stores, search on line for were to purchase.
I don't know if it has any effect on the rubber traction tires so to be safe, I remove them.
Use the red straw and hose the entire mechanism down heavy, especially all those pivot points and the commutator. It will blast all that old crud off. It may be difficult to get at the worm but it's important you do so.
Then rotate the armature until the drivers have turned 90 degrees and hose it down again, repeat until you get 360 rotation of the drivers.
Do this outside over a plastic bowl to catch the runoff.
Let it dry upright overnight, on paper plate or folded paper towels.
Then check it again, after dry, in all those same places.
After all the junk is removed, upside down again and cradled, carefully remove the bottom plate to be sure all the old crud has washed out. You may need further blasting here, check the worm.
Do not remove the bearings from the slots, so go slow and be careful.
Once you are satisfied everything is clean you can re-lube.
Half drop at the driver wheel bearings, small drop in between the gears on the center of the worm, less is more. Don't over do it.
Replace the bottom plate.
Then half drop everywhere there is metal to metal contact (all those points you picked at with the needle), and the forward and rear motor bearings. Do not oil the commutator. Again don't over do it. Oil running down the drivers is a no-no. Blot off any excess with the corner of a paper towel.
My weapon of choice here is Hob-E-Lube premium lite no. HL662.
There are many others to choose from but I bought mine over 10 years ago and still have about half left in the bottle. Whatever you decide to use, make sure it's plastic compatible, this goes for the degreaser as well.
Reconnect the tender, install the traction tires, and put the shell back on and run it. The lube will distribute itself to all the gearing.


Let us know how it works out.
Good luck

[doug1976]

Ok, for the life of me I cannot remove the shell on the SD45, but was able to remove the trucks and tried all kinds of combinations.  

I had tried running it after I removed both coupler boxes and it stayed on the tracks.  I loosened the back coupler box by a half or quarter turn and it seems to have solved the issue.  It looked like the plastic piece that is under the box was slightly bowed toward the truck, while the front one was straight.  Loosening the screw seems to have fixed this issue.

As for the consolidation, looks like that is a lot more work to remove the shell, so that is a tomorrow or the next day project.

I did run it about 5 minutes and it does not get hot, but it smells slightly of something burning, leads me to think that you might be right that some gunk maybe inside the shell and burning off or something.

[James in FL]

Glad to hear you got it running acceptably.
I kind of figured something was causing the truck, or something in it to bind, up.
Read the last three sentences in the Spookshow review, in the link I posted, for easy way to get the shell off.

For the 2-8-0 read spooks review first then look at the exploded view.
It's very possible oil has migrated onto the commutator and brushes, if it has, it will need degreased.
When hosing it down with the degreaser, rotate the armature and be sure it gets cleaned out well where the brushes make contact.
The fix maybe as simple as loosening the screws that hold the bottom plate on.
The details are delicate and easily broken off so be cautious, but don't be intimidated.
You can do this.

[doug1976]

I am a total rookie at motors, on that SD45 i applied a drop of lube on the only moving part i could find after getting the shell off, and i beleive i shouldn't have.  It is the little drum that spins, has copper inside of it.  I was told i should lube brushes, but no clue where those are.  Also couldnt find any gears, or the worm gear.  As a result of me putting oil at the point where that drum spins, now i smell the same smell my consolidation makes, so accidentally diagnosed that one it seems.  Is the solution to buy that degreaser you talked about and blast the inside of that, then find out where the parts are i should have lubed?  Also, why is there no instructions on maintenance provided with these locomotives?   All you get is a parts list and warranty information.

[Mike C]

 As you found out , it is never a good idea to oil there !  On motors the ONLY part you want to oil  ( with a very very very tiny drop is on either end where the shaft spins in it's bearings. And you only want to oil it when the bearing is dry . You'll know when its dry because it will make a loud squealing sound . Normally the only part I oil is a couple drops on the worm gear , it will spread to the other gears by itself .  Always use a oil like Hob-E-Lube Lite oil HL662 or something similar .

On the 2-8-0 I have one of these and when I first got it I could also smell the oil heating up . As long as it runs well I would not worry too much about it . Mine is still running like new and I don't really smell it anymore . As James said you can clean the motor , but when you do you will have to lube the shaft bearings when your done .  For now I would leave it alone unless it isn't running right .

[James in FL]

I agree with Mike, when a diesel lokie needs lube it will tell you.
On a steamer the side rods and related works will need periodic lube.

The problem with oil on the commutator it that as the motor brushes wear, the product of that is a very fine dust.
This dust mixed with oil makes a black crud and tends to collect in the places between the commutator plates creating a bridge.
When this happens you will see an increase in amp draw, the motor begins to run hot and sluggish, and it's downhill from there.
I don't like conduct-a-lube on the commutator for this reason.
This oil can also wick up the brushes between them and the brush holders
When the commutator is dry this dust gets slung out (centrifugal force).
Trace amounts of lubricant will burn off, albeit not cleanly, and you will smell it, sometimes the oil will wick down a worn bushing... it happens.
Bushings last a very long time when properly lubed, it's when you hear that high pitched screeching sound they need attention.
When you hear that sound stop running the lokie, It you don't it will cause premature wearing of the bearing, the fit between the motor shaft and the bearing widens from wear off the bearing. This is what allows the oil to get past it and down to the commutator.

I also agree with Mike on this;

On the 2-8-0 I have one of these and when I first got it I could also smell the oil heating up . As long as it runs well I would not worry too much about it . Mine is still running like new and I don't really smell it anymore . As James said you can clean the motor , but when you do you will have to lube the shaft bearings when your done .  For now I would leave it alone unless it isn't running right .

If you notice an increase in amperage draw, the motor begins to run hot, or you have to nudge it to get it moving, check that commutator. It should be as shiny as a new penny. If it's not, it needs cleaning.

Unfortunately that drop of oil you put on that commutator needs to be removed to prevent all this from happening.
This is how we all learn, we all make mistakes, and we try to make the same ones only once.
Keep your chin up, we were all newbies once.